Constitutional Powers of Grayson

I am trying to understand the Constitutional Powers of Grayson. There were ...

Five Original Steadings
Bancroft Steading – disestablished
Burdette Steading
Mackenzie Steading
Mayhew Steading
Yanakov Steading

As listed, one Steading was disestablished. How did this, if so, affect the Constitutional Powers? Intuitively, I am thinking that the fact that there were originally an odd number of original Steadings prevented government deadlock. Do the original Steadings carry more weight during voting, or just more political influence, which translates into more weight? And since there are only four original Steadings now, how does that work?

What further complicates things for me is the fact that there is a Mayhew Steading and a Protector's Own Steading, made evident here ...

wiki wrote:The three disestablished steadings (Bancroft, Simonds and Oswald) were not incorporated into Mayhew Steading, but rather into the newly created Protector's Steading. From that time the Protector became an entity separate from the steadholders, and title of Steadholder Mayhew belonged to the next person in the line of succession for the Protectorship. (HH3)

This raises my brow and more than a few questions. The next person in line of succession for the Protectorship would "most likely" support the current Protector, would most likely give him allegiance. Constitutional structure, as written, seems to favor the Protector by design.

So I don't know how the Protector could have ever "lost" that power — other than the hit-and-miss practice of appointing "weak" Protectors. (You really can't judge a book by its cover) evidenced by ...

wiki wrote:The Protector started out as "first among equals", as the interface between the Church and the Conclave of Steadholders, he was the leader of the Steadholders, but not their superior. As the position was an appointment by Conclave to any direct male descendent of Oliver Mayhew I, the Protector was frequently chosen on the basis of lack of ability and frequently distanced from the current Steadholder Mayhew.

Once a Protector regains that power that was once lost, as has Benjamin IX, is there anything preventing him from randomly creating Steadings, therefore Steadholders, that would support him? And by doing so, cement his power base even further.

I don't know the process of creating Steadings. IIRC, the Steadholders have a key part to play in this process. However, can off-worlders, who have attained citizenship be denied a right to a Steading of their own? Which leads me to Alfred and Allison; can they have their own Steading?

Harrington Steading was the "first" Steading created for an off-worlder. Surely there will be more, and it just so happens, ironically, that the other off-worlders in deserving position, are the Harringtons — who incidentally are the parents of the first off-world Steadholder.

It seems to me to be an opportunity Benjamin can't pass up if it is a possibility. Is it? That would be another Steading undoubtedly giving allegiance to Benjamin.

It isn't clear to me who Steadholder Mayhew presently is. In the past it has fallen to the oldest son, which is Bernard Raoul. But Bernard is too young to assume those duties, therefore who holds the power that is his, for now?

Another concern that will someday present itself, brought about by the Mayhew Restoration, is whether there will be a limit imposed on the number of Steadings created for off-worlders — lest off-world Steadings/Steadholders come to outnumber Grayson born Steadings. That could prove to stink far in the future.

cthia wrote:Harrington Steading was the "first" Steading created for an off-worlder. Surely there will be more, and it just so happens, ironically, that the other off-worlders in deserving position, are the Harringtons — who incidentally are the parents of the first off-world Steadholder.

I doubt that any non-graysons will be granted a new steading unless the they happen to do something spectacular -- like earn the Star of Grayson by saving the Protector and his family with unarmed combat against well-armed assassins and then save the entire planet from nuclear bombardment.

Establishing a new steading is fairly complicated but requires a super-majority of the Keys to start with, IIRC. Think of it as adding a new State to the US; it isn't something that can be accomplished by the Protector's fiat.

cthia wrote:As listed, one Steading was disestablished. How did this, if so, affect the Constitutional Powers? Intuitively, I am thinking that the fact that there were originally an odd number of original Steadings prevented government deadlock. Do the original Steadings carry more weight during voting, or just more political influence, which translates into more weight? And since there are only four original Steadings now, how does that work?

Under the post-Civil War constitution, there's no official difference in precedence. Every steading gets the same vote.

What further complicates things for me is the fact that there is a Mayhew Steading and a Protector's Own Steading, made evident here ...

wiki wrote:The three disestablished steadings (Bancroft, Simonds and Oswald) were not incorporated into Mayhew Steading, but rather into the newly created Protector's Steading. From that time the Protector became an entity separate from the steadholders, and title of Steadholder Mayhew belonged to the next person in the line of succession for the Protectorship. (HH3)

This raises my brow and more than a few questions. The next person in line of succession for the Protectorship would "most likely" support the current Protector, would most likely give him allegiance. Constitutional structure, as written, seems to favor the Protector by design.

Yes, the Constitution favors the Protector by design. The Constitution basically makes official the massive power Benjamin the Great was wielding during the Civil War.

So I don't know how the Protector could have ever "lost" that power — other than the hit-and-miss practice of appointing "weak" Protectors. (You really can't judge a book by its cover) evidenced by ...

As described in HoS, there was a series of Protectors who either were politically maladroit or simply uninterested in governing, so the Keys stepped in. Government isn't just what some piece of paper says it is, but what practices spring up to support it (a problem the Solarian League is currently facing). And once the Protector is circumscribed by precedent, it becomes that much harder to break out.

Once a Protector regains that power that was once lost, as has Benjamin IX, is there anything preventing him from randomly creating Steadings, therefore Steadholders, that would support him? And by doing so, cement his power base even further.

I don't know the process of creating Steadings. IIRC, the Steadholders have a key part to play in this process. However, can off-worlders, who have attained citizenship be denied a right to a Steading of their own? Which leads me to Alfred and Allison; can they have their own Steading?

Harrington Steading was the "first" Steading created for an off-worlder. Surely there will be more, and it just so happens, ironically, that the other off-worlders in deserving position, are the Harringtons — who incidentally are the parents of the first off-world Steadholder.

It seems to me to be an opportunity Benjamin can't pass up if it is a possibility. Is it? That would be another Steading undoubtedly giving allegiance to Benjamin.

The Protector cannot pack the Keys any more than the reigning monarch of Manticore can pack the Lords. The Protector may initiate proceedings to create a new steading, but the Conclave has the right to approve it. The Conclave would have to be completely fully of dummies to not see the Protector trying to pack the Keys.

It isn't clear to me who Steadholder Mayhew presently is. In the past it has fallen to the oldest son, which is Bernard Raoul. But Bernard is too young to assume those duties, therefore who holds the power that is his, for now?

He could easily have a regent, much like when Honor was presumed dead and her heirs were infants. He's listed as Steadholder Mayhew in HoS.

Another concern that will someday present itself, brought about by the Mayhew Restoration, is whether there will be a limit imposed on the number of Steadings created for off-worlders — lest off-world Steadings/Steadholders come to outnumber Grayson born Steadings. That could prove to stink far in the future.

See packing above.

Another thing to consider is that IIRC Jared Mayhew was Steadholder Mayhew, not Michael Mayhew at the time of the Maccabian plot and he father was also Steadholder Mayhew as the Younger Brother of Ben's father.

I don't recall if it was established that the Steadholder was always the heir to the Protector.

Duckk,

Is it the steaders who approve the formation of a new steading, the steadholders or both?

Don

cthia wrote:
As listed, one Steading was disestablished. How did this, if so, affect the Constitutional Powers? Intuitively, I am thinking that the fact that there were originally an odd number of original Steadings prevented government deadlock. Do the original Steadings carry more weight during voting, or just more political influence, which translates into more weight? And since there are only four original Steadings now, how does that work?

Duckk wrote:
Under the post-Civil War constitution, there's no official difference in precedence. Every steading gets the same vote.

Cthia wrote:
What further complicates things for me is the fact that there is a Mayhew Steading and a Protector's Own Steading, made evident here ...

wiki wrote:
The three disestablished steadings (Bancroft, Simonds and Oswald) were not incorporated into Mayhew Steading, but rather into the newly created Protector's Steading. From that time the Protector became an entity separate from the steadholders, and title of Steadholder Mayhew belonged to the next person in the line of succession for the Protectorship. (HH3)

This raises my brow and more than a few questions. The next person in line of succession for the Protectorship would "most likely" support the current Protector, would most likely give him allegiance. Constitutional structure, as written, seems to favor the Protector by design.

Duckk wrote:
Yes, the Constitution favors the Protector by design. The Constitution basically makes official the massive power Benjamin the Great was wielding during the Civil War.

Cthia wrote:
So I don't know how the Protector could have ever "lost" that power — other than the hit-and-miss practice of appointing "weak" Protectors. (You really can't judge a book by its cover) evidenced by ...

Duckk wrote:
As described in HoS, there was a series of Protectors who either were politically maladroit or simply uninterested in governing, so the Keys stepped in. Government isn't just what some piece of paper says it is, but what practices spring up to support it (a problem the Solarian League is currently facing). And once the Protector is circumscribed by precedent, it becomes that much harder to break out.

cthia wrote:
Once a Protector regains that power that was once lost, as has Benjamin IX, is there anything preventing him from randomly creating Steadings, therefore Steadholders, that would support him? And by doing so, cement his power base even further.

I don't know the process of creating Steadings. IIRC, the Steadholders have a key part to play in this process. However, can off-worlders, who have attained citizenship be denied a right to a Steading of their own? Which leads me to Alfred and Allison; can they have their own Steading?

Harrington Steading was the "first" Steading created for an off-worlder. Surely there will be more, and it just so happens, ironically, that the other off-worlders in deserving position, are the Harringtons — who incidentally are the parents of the first off-world Steadholder.

It seems to me to be an opportunity Benjamin can't pass up if it is a possibility. Is it? That would be another Steading undoubtedly giving allegiance to Benjamin.

Duckk wrote:
The Protector cannot pack the Keys any more than the reigning monarch of Manticore can pack the Lords. The Protector may initiate proceedings to create a new steading, but the Conclave has the right to approve it. The Conclave would have to be completely fully of dummies to not see the Protector trying to pack the Keys.

But would/can trying to create a Steading for the Harringtons necessarily be viewed as such?

It isn't clear to me who Steadholder Mayhew presently is. In the past it has fallen to the oldest son, which is Bernard Raoul. But Bernard is too young to assume those duties, therefore who holds the power that is his, for now?

Duckk wrote:
He could easily have a regent, much like when Honor was presumed dead and her heirs were infants. He's listed as Steadholder Mayhew in HoS.

Who can appoint a regent in these situations?

Another concern that will someday present itself, brought about by the Mayhew Restoration, is whether there will be a limit imposed on the number of Steadings created for off-worlders — lest off-world Steadings/Steadholders come to outnumber Grayson born Steadings. That could prove to stink far in the future.

Duckk wrote:
See packing above.

So in time, as the Mayhew Restoration opens the door to many off-worlders to become citizens they won't be able to have a Steading?

Thanks for your response Duckk!

Weird Harold wrote:

cthia wrote:Harrington Steading was the "first" Steading created for an off-worlder. Surely there will be more, and it just so happens, ironically, that the other off-worlders in deserving position, are the Harringtons — who incidentally are the parents of the first off-world Steadholder.

I doubt that any non-graysons will be granted a new steading unless the they happen to do something spectacular -- like earn the Star of Grayson by saving the Protector and his family with unarmed combat against well-armed assassins and then save the entire planet from nuclear bombardment.

Establishing a new steading is fairly complicated but requires a super-majority of the Keys to start with, IIRC. Think of it as adding a new State to the US; it isn't something that can be accomplished by the Protector's fiat.

You don't think what Dr. Allison Harrington accomplished for the Graysons in righting the defective birth rates alone qualify as spectacular? Much less the continuing work being done.

Really now.

Unless you distinguish saving Grayson lives by missiles opposed to microscope an ultimate difference.

Oh, and the spectacular thing accomplished of "birthing" the little would be Salamandering, Twice Saviour of their world.

BrightSoul wrote:Another thing to consider is that IIRC Jared Mayhew was Steadholder Mayhew, not Michael Mayhew at the time of the Maccabian plot and he father was also Steadholder Mayhew as the Younger Brother of Ben's father.

I don't recall if it was established that the Steadholder was always the heir to the Protector.

No, Steadholder Mayhew is the equivalent of a Crown Prince it is the holding of the heir apparent. Michael Mayhew was succeeded by his nephew Bernard Raoul. Michael probably serves as his regent along with being an ambassador-at-large. Jared was Minister of Industry and so was his Father.

cthia wrote:You don't think what Dr. Allison Harrington accomplished for the Graysons in righting the defective birth rates alone qualify as spectacular? Much less the continuing work being done.

Nope. There were no eight-year-old standing on any balconies vowing to be just like Allison.

Harrington Steading (and the Star of Grayson) was slipped through on a wave of publicity and relief in that short period when nobody on Grayson could say a bad word about Honor (or Nimitz) without being lynched. It would take some event(s) of similar heroic magnitude to generate the conditions that would force the conservative Keys to STFU and approve another Off-worlder as a new Steadholder.

Weird Harold wrote:

cthia wrote:You don't think what Dr. Allison Harrington accomplished for the Graysons in righting the defective birth rates alone qualify as spectacular? Much less the continuing work being done.

Nope. There were no eight-year-old standing on any balconies vowing to be just like Allison.

Harrington Steading (and the Star of Grayson) was slipped through on a wave of publicity and relief in that short period when nobody on Grayson could say a bad word about Honor (or Nimitz) without being lynched. It would take some event(s) of similar heroic magnitude to generate the conditions that would force the conservative Keys to STFU and approve another Off-worlder as a new Steadholder.

Weird Harold wrote:There were no eight-year-old standing on any balconies vowing to be just like Allison.

Copy that. Yet there will be many more 8 yr-olds standing that wouldn't be without Allison.

But I do see your point. I suppose I am hoping that, in the interim, behind the scenes, regarding the Harringtons, public opinion and Keys opinions have mellowed a bit. At any rate, the problem Steadings have taken a serious hit in influence I would think, after all the fiascos. And since we're talking about Honor's parents ...

I'll chalk it up to wishful thinking.