Ebola Virus

All I am getting from this none sense is that a bunch of Neo-Cons are saying racism doesn't exist... and it is all just a figment of us liberals... really?

smr wrote:The WHO admits that the Ebola outbreak may be worse than admitted to? It's better to be prepared for the end of the World but praying for the best result. If the virus outbreak dies down, it has changed my thinking on how I live my life.

One, I should build a home that last several years off the grid and able to to dispose of wastes that are created. I was thinking of building house that could treat the sewage that could be used as a way to water fertilize the yard. Also, I want the ability to generate my energy and live off the grid. Two, I want a victory type garden or larger for my own family use. This is way to supplement my food supply in case of trying times. Third, I wish to own my little armory. I have decided to buy 3 AR-15 and 3 glock pistols. My hope is that these times will change to the better but if not I'm prepared for the worse. Fourth, I think I am going to study to become a ham radio operator. I know nothing about it and I understand it's expensive but that ability could mean the difference in survival and death. Besides, it might become a fun hobby! I realize that this is an overreaction to the outbreak but somehow it feels right in the soul for myself and my family.

Read The Humanure Handbook by Joseph Jenkins for a much more sanitary and pleasant to use latrine solution. It works. There are plans for building a nice commode to hold the bucket under a normal toilet seat. Not difficult to construct. The liberal use of dry carbon stuff in it is key to sanitation and control of smells and bugs. Dry leaves, peat, dry grass, sawdust, that sort of thing. You empty the bucket in a compost pile that you let sit for at least a year before using. That kills the nasties. And constructed properly the pile does not stink or attract bugs. Really. Anyone trying to live off grid etc should really read that book. Really.

And herbal medicine. Would be the only kind possibly. Got the books? Got the plants growing? Thriving? No? urmmmm.

Many plants are in fact powerful healers. Of course drug companies don't make money off your pet yarrow or burdock plants. The know how is out there. Find it. Implement it.

I have a pet theory that drug companies were messing with leonitus cardiaca, aka Motherwort, when they stumbled on Viagra. Motherwort is an interesting plant with many beneficial effects, including as a heart tonic and a gentle ... tunes up the Viagra type systems,ok? Really. And grows like a weed in our yard.

You need wood heat and cooking in this dream house. At least as an option ready to use. Look into both wood ranges -- I learned to cook on one of those and stoves in a house without electricity or plumbing. I am glad I have the knowledge of how to live without those things if need be. Hey, people managed it for thousands of years. It can be done. It can be done graciously.

Also look into 'rocket stoves'. And having a greenhouse in which you also keep chickens and rabbits for food and eggs. Their body heat helps keep the greenhouse warm in winter. Roof cysterns with UV water treatment. Dew collectors. There is a lot out there.

I will say I have noticed many prepper types are big on the ammo and guns side of things but completely ignore longer term needs should society actually and truly go down. Things that will be gone forever if no one salvages them real quick or already has them and knows how to use them.

Looms, spinning wheels, growing flax. Keeping animals. Sheep, cattle, pigs, on and on through the list. Growing a serious garden. Planting things like fruit and nut trees, fruiting shrubs, canes and the like. Look into espaliering fruit trees. We have these bordering all around and they are wonderful. Around our veggie garden. And did you know you can autumn plant potatoes from this year's crop and they will winter over -even in Wisconsin -and bear wonderfully the next year? Yes. We do this. It works.

Fruiting plants take years to come into bearing and gardening is not learned over night. A little less paintball and more how to own and care for horses to ride and haul, sheep for wool and meat and milk, goats ditto. Blacksmithing gear. How's your stock of nails and screws, gentlemen?

Bowls and pitchers for daily washing yourself and a tin tub for Saturday night baths in the kitchen. Been there done that. Ditto chamber pots under the beds. Keep a bowl of leaves or peat handy to sprinkle in it each use. Do you own a big teakettle for heating water on your wood range or from the swinging hook in your fireplace? 19th century homes, like the one I knew, were set up for this sort of living. Retrofitting can be done to a newer one.

Do you know how to make candles? How is your supply of candles? Matches. Maybe no more match store to get more. Do you keep bees or sheep? Do you know watered down pee and wood ashes grow wonderful veggies, esp tomatoes? Not fresh. Add to beds in autumn to mellow over the months until spring planting. Do you know how to make lye from water and wood ashes, then use that and animal fat or oils to make soap? No? Where ya gonna get soap then? Use of and owning a straight razor. strop, brush and mug...

For a preview preparedness check, pretend the power just went off, the water is only a drip, all your electronics just died, including most cars. No more stores, no more help from outside. And the neighbors have this horrid looking rash. There you sit. What do you really really wish you had that you don't?

You are in your car when it dies on the road and so does everyone else's. Planes fall out of the sky. Cell phone and radio dead etc. How do you get home? What do wish you had in that car to make it possible for you to get home? Think about it.

Be serious. Think about it. I know it could happen at any moment. Do you? It could also never happen so there is that also. Balance in all things.

Prioritize and start building your response. And if civilization is gonna be down for a year it is probably gonna be gone. Be it comet strike, EMP or CME, pandemic from hell, Yellowstone erupting... the list of possible horrors is nasty. In that case there is no getting back to normal. Clothes from stores are gonna wear out, etcetera. THEN what are you gonna do, preppers of the world? A thing like a loom or a drop spindle or a spinning wheel, wool cards etcetera is not a luxury then. Nor are a blacksmith's forge and anvil etcetera. Think about it, guys. And then what you realistically can actually handle short term and then longer term.

Things like handtools, both guys' and traditional gals', will be precious beyond words. Needles. Thread. knowing how to use them. Doing carpentry. Hand saws, axes. You have to fell the tree first. Got an ax or saw that can handle that? No chainsaws. No gas. How are you with a bow and arrows? Do you know how to make them from scratch? Shoot something with it? Ammo will run out. Then what?

Do you have a fireplace? Do you have it set up to take a cooking grate and hooks etc to turn it into a working hearth? How's your supply of firewood? Where would you get more.

Pandemic, well we have a box of disposable gowns, nitrile gloves, goggles, N95 masks, hair covering etc. To get rid of bodies safely, mostly. Medicine kit stuff and home nursing stuff like waterproof mattress covers, bed pan etc. I hope I never need to get into the nasty bug box, but it is there. eh.

We call the no power situation 'medieval mode'. This stuff happens for perfectly mundane reasons like ice storms. Being ready for that and a couple weeks stuck in the house is doable. Then go from there to more as your inclinations and resources allow. And relax, you've done what you can. Stressing out helps no one.

I am 64. I have limits and know it. Younger folks might want to think things through way longer term than I am up for anymore. But going off in a panic is counter productive. Get calm, make a plan. Implement it as will and resources allow.

edit by the typo queen

Dieu_Le_Fera wrote:All I am getting from this none sense is that a bunch of Neo-Cons are saying racism doesn't exist... and it is all just a figment of us liberals... really?

Huh?

Am an impartial observer I am completely willing to review anyones end of the world plans

Just PM me exact GPS co-ordinates, a full inventory of any supplies and a list of suspected security weak points and I'll get back to you (not long after the fall of civilization)

Dieu_Le_Fera wrote:All I am getting from this none sense is that a bunch of Neo-Cons are saying racism doesn't exist... and it is all just a figment of us liberals... really?

Really?
Sorry, but racism does exist and is pretty much genetically coded to some degree.
It is a well known fact that even in highly mixed areas, people will trust those of the same ethnic background slightly more than those from other ethnic backgrounds. Once you add multiculturalism and the resulting culture clashes, racism becomes far more prevalent.
Different cultures often fail to communicate effectively because the different traditions often lead to mis-communications on a very basic level. The current situation in Iraq is an example, the assumption that democracy would spring up after Saddam was removed was mistaken since democracy relies on at least a medium level of education (especially in teaching critical thinking) as well as people who can think beyond clan/tribe terms.
Democracy flourished in ancient Greece because they venerated those who learned, thus encouraging others to learn things like philosophy and engineering, often placing their own well-being second to the well-being of their city-state or country. Same for Rome, it only failed when the bread-and-circuses culture overtook the duty-to-the-state culture.

What this has to do with Ebola, I leave to better minds than mine.

Emo Otaku wrote:Am an impartial observer I am completely willing to review anyones end of the world plans

Just PM me exact GPS co-ordinates, a full inventory of any supplies and a list of suspected security weak points and I'll get back to you (not long after the fall of civilization)

Love it

Of course any of this is very unlikely to happen, or so I hope.

Northstar wrote:

smr wrote:
The WHO admits that the Ebola outbreak may be worse than admitted to? It's better to be prepared for the end of the World but praying for the best result. If the virus outbreak dies down, it has changed my thinking on how I live my life.

One, I should build a home that last several years off the grid and able to to dispose of wastes that are created. I was thinking of building house that could treat the sewage that could be used as a way to water fertilize the yard. Also, I want the ability to generate my energy and live off the grid. Two, I want a victory type garden or larger for my own family use. This is way to supplement my food supply in case of trying times. Third, I wish to own my little armory. I have decided to buy 3 AR-15 and 3 glock pistols. My hope is that these times will change to the better but if not I'm prepared for the worse. Fourth, I think I am going to study to become a ham radio operator. I know nothing about it and I understand it's expensive but that ability could mean the difference in survival and death. Besides, it might become a fun hobby! I realize that this is an overreaction to the outbreak but somehow it feels right in the soul for myself and my family.

Read The Humanure Handbook by Joseph Jenkins for a much more sanitary and pleasant to use latrine solution. It works. There are plans for building a nice commode to hold the bucket under a normal toilet seat. Not difficult to construct. The liberal use of dry carbon stuff in it is key to sanitation and control of smells and bugs. Dry leaves, peat, dry grass, sawdust, that sort of thing. You empty the bucket in a compost pile that you let sit for at least a year before using. That kills the nasties. And constructed properly the pile does not stink or attract bugs. Really. Anyone trying to live off grid etc should really read that book. Really.

And herbal medicine. Would be the only kind possibly. Got the books? Got the plants growing? Thriving? No? urmmmm.

Many plants are in fact powerful healers. Of course drug companies don't make money off your pet yarrow or burdock plants. The know how is out there. Find it. Implement it.

I have a pet theory that drug companies were messing with leonitus cardiaca, aka Motherwort, when they stumbled on Viagra. Motherwort is an interesting plant with many beneficial effects, including as a heart tonic and a gentle ... tunes up the Viagra type systems,ok? Really. And grows like a weed in our yard.

You need wood heat and cooking in this dream house. At least as an option ready to use. Look into both wood ranges -- I learned to cook on one of those and stoves in a house without electricity or plumbing. I am glad I have the knowledge of how to live without those things if need be. Hey, people managed it for thousands of years. It can be done. It can be done graciously.

Also look into 'rocket stoves'. And having a greenhouse in which you also keep chickens and rabbits for food and eggs. Their body heat helps keep the greenhouse warm in winter. Roof cysterns with UV water treatment. Dew collectors. There is a lot out there.

I will say I have noticed many prepper types are big on the ammo and guns side of things but completely ignore longer term needs should society actually and truly go down. Things that will be gone forever if no one salvages them real quick or already has them and knows how to use them.

Looms, spinning wheels, growing flax. Keeping animals. Sheep, cattle, pigs, on and on through the list. Growing a serious garden. Planting things like fruit and nut trees, fruiting shrubs, canes and the like. Look into espaliering fruit trees. We have these bordering all around and they are wonderful. Around our veggie garden. And did you know you can autumn plant potatoes from this year's crop and they will winter over -even in Wisconsin -and bear wonderfully the next year? Yes. We do this. It works.

Fruiting plants take years to come into bearing and gardening is not learned over night. A little less paintball and more how to own and care for horses to ride and haul, sheep for wool and meat and milk, goats ditto. Blacksmithing gear. How's your stock of nails and screws, gentlemen?

Bowls and pitchers for daily washing yourself and a tin tub for Saturday night baths in the kitchen. Been there done that. Ditto chamber pots under the beds. Keep a bowl of leaves or peat handy to sprinkle in it each use. Do you own a big teakettle for heating water on your wood range or from the swinging hook in your fireplace? 19th century homes, like the one I knew, were set up for this sort of living. Retrofitting can be done to a newer one.

Do you know how to make candles? How is your supply of candles? Matches. Maybe no more match store to get more. Do you keep bees or sheep? Do you know watered down pee and wood ashes grow wonderful veggies, esp tomatoes? Not fresh. Add to beds in autumn to mellow over the months until spring planting. Do you know how to make lye from water and wood ashes, then use that and animal fat or oils to make soap? No? Where ya gonna get soap then? Use of and owning a straight razor. strop, brush and mug...

For a preview preparedness check, pretend the power just went off, the water is only a drip, all your electronics just died, including most cars. No more stores, no more help from outside. And the neighbors have this horrid looking rash. There you sit. What do you really really wish you had that you don't?

You are in your car when it dies on the road and so does everyone else's. Planes fall out of the sky. Cell phone and radio dead etc. How do you get home? What do wish you had in that car to make it possible for you to get home? Think about it.

Be serious. Think about it. I know it could happen at any moment. Do you? It could also never happen so there is that also. Balance in all things.

Prioritize and start building your response. And if civilization is gonna be down for a year it is probably gonna be gone. Be it comet strike, EMP or CME, pandemic from hell, Yellowstone erupting... the list of possible horrors is nasty. In that case there is no getting back to normal. Clothes from stores are gonna wear out, etcetera. THEN what are you gonna do, preppers of the world? A thing like a loom or a drop spindle or a spinning wheel, wool cards etcetera is not a luxury then. Nor are a blacksmith's forge and anvil etcetera. Think about it, guys. And then what you realistically can actually handle short term and then longer term.

Things like handtools, both guys' and traditional gals', will be precious beyond words. Needles. Thread. knowing how to use them. Doing carpentry. Hand saws, axes. You have to fell the tree first. Got an ax or saw that can handle that? No chainsaws. No gas. How are you with a bow and arrows? Do you know how to make them from scratch? Shoot something with it? Ammo will run out. Then what?

Do you have a fireplace? Do you have it set up to take a cooking grate and hooks etc to turn it into a working hearth? How's your supply of firewood? Where would you get more.

Pandemic, well we have a box of disposable gowns, nitrile gloves, goggles, N95 masks, hair covering etc. To get rid of bodies safely, mostly. Medicine kit stuff and home nursing stuff like waterproof mattress covers, bed pan etc. I hope I never need to get into the nasty bug box, but it is there. eh.

We call the no power situation 'medieval mode'. This stuff happens for perfectly mundane reasons like ice storms. Being ready for that and a couple weeks stuck in the house is doable. Then go from there to more as your inclinations and resources allow. And relax, you've done what you can. Stressing out helps no one.

I am 64. I have limits and know it. Younger folks might want to think things through way longer term than I am up for anymore. But going off in a panic is counter productive. Get calm, make a plan. Implement it as will and resources allow.

edit by the typo queen

Nice post Northstar. Very nice. Thank you.

I am Native American. My family and tribe teaches all of the things you mention. And then some. It is part of right of passage to learn these basic things. At an open pauau (pow wow) many of these things are taught. Making a fire with only the tools of nature is a critically overlooked skill. Preserving food with only nature. Clothing. Hunting skills. Bow and arrow is like a gun to us. One should also have the skill to hunt, in snow, in wilderness, etc. And to trap, alive. Knowing nature's natural foods. Roots. Berries. Worms. Snake. Many many insects. The agave worm (found in Tequila bottles) are very nutritious and delicious. Many different ants of course. And several types of worms. There are many things that people take for granted. We all have wells. Guns are fine, but ammo runs out. One should know how to make and use a bow and arrow, a slingshot ... both types. Medicinal herbs. Fishing with just rope, vine, etc. And many would be shocked at what can be used as bait. Can you make a knife with just the tools of nature? Can you filter water with the tools of nature. Can you locate possible shallow water sources from the presence of certain flora? At open "pow wows" it is shocking how many cannot use a compass, or navigate by the night sky.

There is much to learn. Native pow wows are an excellent course.

On racism:

I once saw an interview with Charlton Heston talking about making Planet Of The Apes. He thought it was funny that, at lunch time, all the actors playing chimpanzees sat at one table, the gorillas sat at another table, the orangutans sat together, and the human cavemen took yet another table. Without even thinking about it, they segregated themselves based on the costumes they wore and the characters they played. Racism will never be eliminated as long as there are differences between humans. If we all looked exactly the same, we would still find some way to divide ourselves up into groups. Religion, anybody?

What we can, and must, do is combat discrimination. The government can't stop some people from disliking those who don't look like them and any laws attempting such a thing are foolish and futile. It must stop them from doing harm to others, which is achievable.
---------------
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!!

smr wrote:The WHO admits that the Ebola outbreak may be worse than admitted to? It's better to be prepared for the end of the World but praying for the best result. If the virus outbreak dies down, it has changed my thinking on how I live my life.

One, I should build a home that last several years off the grid and able to to dispose of wastes that are created. I was thinking of building house that could treat the sewage that could be used as a way to water fertilize the yard. Also, I want the ability to generate my energy and live off the grid. Two, I want a victory type garden or larger for my own family use. This is way to supplement my food supply in case of trying times. Third, I wish to own my little armory. I have decided to buy 3 AR-15 and 3 glock pistols. My hope is that these times will change to the better but if not I'm prepared for the worse. Fourth, I think I am going to study to become a ham radio operator. I know nothing about it and I understand it's expensive but that ability could mean the difference in survival and death. Besides, it might become a fun hobby! I realize that this is an overreaction to the outbreak but somehow it feels right in the soul for myself and my family.

For solar power: You will want at least 12 KVAH* of battery capacity, a minimum 4 KVA 220V split-phase inverter, and, depending on available sun where you live, between 2 and 3.5 KVA nominal panel output. Get the highest voltage system you can find - it would take over 330 amps to generate 4 KVA from a 12V battery. The cables would need to be over an inch thick and the batteries wouldn't take that kind of abuse for long.

I have what is called a "grid tied" solar power system with 2 KVA of panels and a 3.5 KVA power converter. It starts up at sunrise and sends any excess power back out through the electric meter, supplying power to the neighborhood. At night, it shuts down and you use electric company power like everybody else. Not suitable for The End Of The World because it requires the electric service to stabilize and synchronize the converter, but it is the simplest system to start with. I plan to add batteries and the rest later. I haven't paid an electric bill in over a year.

Guns: I would strongly recommend that you buy at least one .30 caliber rifle. If enemies come at you in vehicles or wearing armor, you will find the .308 much more effective than a .223. I most highly recommend the FN-FAL which is hands down the best .308 semi-auto rifle in the world. Second choice would be the M-1A civilian version of the M-14. You might also consider plunking down $7,000 for a Barrett M-82. There is a lot of ballistic armor that will stop a .223, there is some that will stop a .308, but there is no armor on Earth that will stop a .50 BMG. If some crackpot did try to make such armor, it would be
- far too heavy to wear, and
- the impact would still be fatal
The same is true to a lesser extent of the .308 -- repeated hits will beat the enemy to death even through armor. Both are also effective against most vehicles.

For pistols, I would get either .40 S&W or the venerable .45 ACP. Both are effective without being hard to control. I would also suggest getting a .357 Magnum revolver because there are far fewer things that can go wrong with it, and because it can shoot .38 Special ammunition.

You should think about getting a reloader and supplies of bullets, primers, powder and brass. When ammunition gets hard to find, you will be in decent shape. It's hard to beat the Dillon RL-550B.
---------------
* KVA, KVAH - Kilo Volt Ampere (Hour); how industrial power is measured. Approximately equivalent to Kilowatts, but also takes into account the phase relationship between voltage and current when driving reactive loads like motors, inductors, and capacitor-input switching power supplies like those in almost all electronic devices.

My solar system is similar but 2.4 kw and I haven't paid a power bill for 7 years now. An on grid system can be converted to off grid either by a different inverter and batteries or as I mentioned earlier with the right inverter and a wind generator (provides clean power automatically), you just stockpile ice during the day and accept that some windless nights you use oil lamps. They insist on having safety interlocks that shut it down when there is no mains power to safeguard power system linesmen from power coming backwards up the line, (can be circumvented).

Regarding the guns I agree with Northstar that they should only be a part of the preparation and we shouldn't make them the centre point. I already live much as she so eloquently explained so am naturally prepared.


As an aside though I recall testing bullet proof vests for our military (helicopter pilots protection) with some interesting results. The one we selected had an optional ceramic insert. At 100 mtrs without the ceramic it would stop a 5.56 from an M16 but not the Steyr AUG (Steyr had tighter rifling to stabilise the bullet more). With the insert it stopped both, and just stopped both 308 and 7.63x39 (AK) rounds although the ceramic was broken with the bigger rounds. I had brought along my 30-06 with AP projectiles and hot hand loads, which went straight through all including the Kevlar at the back of the plasticine dummy. Not fair they said, so I said prohibit terrorists from having the same gear.

Imaginos1892 wrote:

smr wrote:The WHO admits that the Ebola outbreak may be worse than admitted to? It's better to be prepared for the end of the World but praying for the best result. If the virus outbreak dies down, it has changed my thinking on how I live my life.

One, I should build a home that last several years off the grid and able to to dispose of wastes that are created. I was thinking of building house that could treat the sewage that could be used as a way to water fertilize the yard. Also, I want the ability to generate my energy and live off the grid. Two, I want a victory type garden or larger for my own family use. This is way to supplement my food supply in case of trying times. Third, I wish to own my little armory. I have decided to buy 3 AR-15 and 3 glock pistols. My hope is that these times will change to the better but if not I'm prepared for the worse. Fourth, I think I am going to study to become a ham radio operator. I know nothing about it and I understand it's expensive but that ability could mean the difference in survival and death. Besides, it might become a fun hobby! I realize that this is an overreaction to the outbreak but somehow it feels right in the soul for myself and my family.

For solar power: You will want at least 12 KVAH* of battery capacity, a minimum 4 KVA 220V split-phase inverter, and, depending on available sun where you live, between 2 and 3.5 KVA nominal panel output. Get the highest voltage system you can find - it would take over 330 amps to generate 4 KVA from a 12V battery. The cables would need to be over an inch thick and the batteries wouldn't take that kind of abuse for long.

I have what is called a "grid tied" solar power system with 2 KVA of panels and a 3.5 KVA power converter. It starts up at sunrise and sends any excess power back out through the electric meter, supplying power to the neighborhood. At night, it shuts down and you use electric company power like everybody else. Not suitable for The End Of The World because it requires the electric service to stabilize and synchronize the converter, but it is the simplest system to start with. I plan to add batteries and the rest later. I haven't paid an electric bill in over a year.

Guns: I would strongly recommend that you buy at least one .30 caliber rifle. If enemies come at you in vehicles or wearing armor, you will find the .308 much more effective than a .223. I most highly recommend the FN-FAL which is hands down the best .308 semi-auto rifle in the world. Second choice would be the M-1A civilian version of the M-14. You might also consider plunking down $7,000 for a Barrett M-82. There is a lot of ballistic armor that will stop a .223, there is some that will stop a .308, but there is no armor on Earth that will stop a .50 BMG. If some crackpot did try to make such armor, it would be
- far too heavy to wear, and
- the impact would still be fatal
The same is true to a lesser extent of the .308 -- repeated hits will beat the enemy to death even through armor. Both are also effective against most vehicles.

For pistols, I would get either .40 S&W or the venerable .45 ACP. Both are effective without being hard to control. I would also suggest getting a .357 Magnum revolver because there are far fewer things that can go wrong with it, and because it can shoot .38 Special ammunition.

You should think about getting a reloader and supplies of bullets, primers, powder and brass. When ammunition gets hard to find, you will be in decent shape. It's hard to beat the Dillon RL-550B.
---------------
* KVA, KVAH - Kilo Volt Ampere (Hour); how industrial power is measured. Approximately equivalent to Kilowatts, but also takes into account the phase relationship between voltage and current when driving reactive loads like motors, inductors, and capacitor-input switching power supplies like those in almost all electronic devices.