Reparations

If and when war is declared (does it matter?) and if and when the GA wins what should follow a formal declaration of defeat; what formalities should then be expected by either side? Knowing about the truisms of war such as, to the victor goes the spoils and to the vanquished come the trials, who goes to jail; who gets shot? What will reparations look like?

Edit: I am speaking of the Solarian League

npadln wrote:If and when war is declared (does it matter?) and if and when the GA wins what should follow a formal declaration of defeat; what formalities should then be expected by either side? Knowing about the truisms of war such as, to the victor goes the spoils and to the vanquished come the trials, who goes to jail; who gets shot? What will reparations look like?

I'm guessing there won't be any, really.

The Solarian League will not exist (or will only exist as a rump federation of whoever hadn't seceded yet). It can't pay reparations to anyone.

The inner core of the Mesan Alignment will be dead. While seizing the Detweiller fortune (and that of the other inner core star lines) would be an impressive sum on an individual scale, compared to the budgets of a polity the size of Haven or Manticore... it's probably not much.

The overwhelming majority residents of Darius are dupes, and were raised from birth to be such. Asking for anything from them would essentially be blaming the victims.

So I suspect the only ones in any position to pay any reparations would be the 'second tier' RF leadership -- a fair portion of which will claim to be appalled by the Alignment's actual long-term plans, and many of which will actually be telling the truth. Not exactly the best choice, and a dozen or so planets can't really make good on the losses of hundreds to thousands of worlds negatively impacted by the Alginment's actions.

drothgery wrote:

npadln wrote:If and when war is declared (does it matter?) and if and when the GA wins what should follow a formal declaration of defeat; what formalities should then be expected by either side? Knowing about the truisms of war such as, to the victor goes the spoils and to the vanquished come the trials, who goes to jail; who gets shot? What will reparations look like?

I'm guessing there won't be any, really.

The Solarian League will not exist (or will only exist as a rump federation of whoever hadn't seceded yet). It can't pay reparations to anyone.

The inner core of the Mesan Alignment will be dead. While seizing the Detweiller fortune (and that of the other inner core star lines) would be an impressive sum on an individual scale, compared to the budgets of a polity the size of Haven or Manticore... it's probably not much.

The overwhelming majority residents of Darius are dupes, and were raised from birth to be such. Asking for anything from them would essentially be blaming the victims.

So I suspect the only ones in any position to pay any reparations would be the 'second tier' RF leadership -- a fair portion of which will claim to be appalled by the Alignment's actual long-term plans, and many of which will actually be telling the truth. Not exactly the best choice, and a dozen or so planets can't really make good on the losses of hundreds to thousands of worlds negatively impacted by the Alginment's actions.

This plus going after them too harshly will encourage worlds to band together for revenge which is the exact opposite of what the GA wants.

I think there will be reparations. I would imagine rather a sum of money or an amount per dead, or land etc we would see something in the way of a reduced military status for x years and an enforced most favoured nation status for trading concerns. maybe 0 tariffs for manticoran/haven goods.

the idea of reparations in this case is to enable a true democratic nation to arise from the ashes by encouraging an economy based around open trade and not the civil economy that they had before.

drothgery wrote:

npadln wrote:If and when war is declared (does it matter?) and if and when the GA wins what should follow a formal declaration of defeat; what formalities should then be expected by either side? Knowing about the truisms of war such as, to the victor goes the spoils and to the vanquished come the trials, who goes to jail; who gets shot? What will reparations look like?

I'm guessing there won't be any, really.

The Solarian League will not exist (or will only exist as a rump federation of whoever hadn't seceded yet). It can't pay reparations to anyone.

The inner core of the Mesan Alignment will be dead. While seizing the Detweiller fortune (and that of the other inner core star lines) would be an impressive sum on an individual scale, compared to the budgets of a polity the size of Haven or Manticore... it's probably not much.

The overwhelming majority residents of Darius are dupes, and were raised from birth to be such. Asking for anything from them would essentially be blaming the victims.

So I suspect the only ones in any position to pay any reparations would be the 'second tier' RF leadership -- a fair portion of which will claim to be appalled by the Alignment's actual long-term plans, and many of which will actually be telling the truth. Not exactly the best choice, and a dozen or so planets can't really make good on the losses of hundreds to thousands of worlds negatively impacted by the Alginment's actions.

BrianC wrote:I think there will be reparations. I would imagine rather a sum of money or an amount per dead, or land etc we would see something in the way of a reduced military status for x years and an enforced most favoured nation status for trading concerns. maybe 0 tariffs for manticoran/haven goods.

Yeah, that has always worked out. I mean, look at Versailles. A perfect ending to the war to end all wars. So yeah, what could possibly go wrong?

Best reparations would be control and ownership of any of theeir terminii, felix, yildun, and the visigoth junction.
copies of their datsabases and confiscation of their tech.

BrianC wrote:the idea of reparations in this case is to enable a true democratic nation to arise from the ashes by encouraging an economy based around open trade and not the civil economy that they had before.

Manticcore, and presumably the Grand Alliance, don't want "a true democratic nation" to replace the Solarian League, they want a bunch of independent Successor States that don't feel any need to band together against the GA.

Demanding reparations from a polity that no longer exists would be fruitless and counter-productive to the goals outlined by Honor Harrington. (often referred to as The Harrington Doctrine.")

kzt wrote:

BrianC wrote:I think there will be reparations. I would imagine rather a sum of money or an amount per dead, or land etc we would see something in the way of a reduced military status for x years and an enforced most favoured nation status for trading concerns. maybe 0 tariffs for manticoran/haven goods.

Yeah, that has always worked out. I mean, look at Versailles. A perfect ending to the war to end all wars. So yeah, what could possibly go wrong?

While I totally agree with you that the Traité de Versaille and it's very harsh conditions imposed on Germany played their role in the rise of Nazism, it should not be forgotten that, without the 1929 crash, it is very likely that Hitler would never have been able to win the elections of 1932. One just need to look at the (pitiful) numbers of vote it collected before 1929 to see it.

However, I agree with, very harsh conditions would probably be conter-productive by provoking the hostility of the inhabitants of any stellar system submitted to it. Even more, it is not likely given who is in command in the GA.
What they would probably do (and what would probably the smartest thing to do) would be to reconstruct the economies of those system (in order to avoid a repeat of the nefarious "1929 effect") but in a way that would solidly mix the economies of those system with the one of the GA.

People with a business or a job and with a future that looks good are less likely to go to war (and risk losing it all) than people having nothing but hate....

Even more, with mixed economies, you augment contact between populations, and Learning to know the other is the first step to peace and respect...

OlorinNight wrote:However, I agree with, very harsh conditions would probably be conter-productive by provoking the hostility of the inhabitants of any stellar system submitted to it. Even more, it is not likely given who is in command in the GA.

What they would probably do (and what would probably the smartest thing to do) would be to reconstruct the economies of those system (in order to avoid a repeat of the nefarious "1929 effect") but in a way that would solidly mix the economies of those system with the one of the GA.

People with a business or a job and with a future that looks good are less likely to go to war (and risk losing it all) than people having nothing but hate....

Even more, with mixed economies, you augment contact between populations, and Learning to know the other is the first step to peace and respect...

First of all, OlorinNight (and that is an interesting name, how did you come by it, if I may ask?), welcome to the Forum (if you haven't been greeted before), pull up a chair, order an Old Tillman and join in.

Second, I tend to agree with you. I don't think most systems economies will need 'reconstruction', especially in the Core and Shell, what they will be needing is a return to 'business as usual', albeit with fewer tariffs and more free trade and with much less domination by the Transtellars, who may find that their 'cash cows' out in the Verge and Protectorates have grown very sharp horns.... But their economies should be fundamentally sound, so it is in the GA's interest that they resume normal operation as soon as possible, to stop any notions of revenge...and s you point out, when you have a future that looks rosy, the need for war goes down (but doesn't always end, we've seen enough of that in the past century).

Out in the Protectorates and Verge, things will be a little more...interesting, as it appears many have never been able to develop their economies (either due to poverty, i.e., many of the Talbott systems, or Transtellar domination/predatory capitalism). I expect the SEM/GA to be making trade and economic deals right and left as OFS/FF lose more and more control.

Captain (P) Gweon is a MAlignment agent, but that doesn't mean his analysis in ART isn't accurate. A lot of those planets out there are primed to have their economies boom, and Manticore, with an economy based on trade, is quite willing to aid and abet it.

We shall see...eventually.

Reparations? With the 100th anniversary of WW1 remember the reparations at the end of that war caused the raise of Adolf Hitler and WW2.

Poker