HFQ Official Snippet #2

Henry Brown wrote:I think this snippet also casts new light on her request at the end of LAMA that she would need quick transport to Zion on short notice. I've been wondering for months what could be so important to require this request. We know her group is still passing on information and is assassinating corrupt vicars. But these don't seem important enough or urgent enough for an emergency trip to Zion.

Now we have confirmation that she is in a long running resistance group. We still don't know enough about her organization, but it was confirmed that a "written record" was left. I am wondering if anything ELSE was left. Could Aivah be in possession of an artifact along the lines of the Stone of Schueler?

If so, given her request, I am guessing that whatever she has will only work in Zion. And the biggest ongoing mystery in the series is "What is under the Temple?" Therefore my guess is that she has a key or device that will unlock the temple basement and perhaps give control over whatever is down there.

It could be done that way, I suppose. My own expectation is that Father Paityr will lead the way in to the basement since we know he knows how to get there.

As for Nynian, my own suspicion is that an op her organization is involved with is reaching a critical phase and when that happens she needs to be there in a hurry. And perhaps the presence of the good seijin would enhance that op's chance of success. Could it be that Duchairn's plot is coming to maturity??

At any rate, unless this turns out to be a trap --which I doubt-- Nynian is angling for a partnership with Merlin. From the way this snippet reads, she's revealed at least as much to Merlin as she has figured out about him.

Don

Dutch46 wrote:
It has occurred to me more than once that Merlin may not be in possession of as much of the whole story as he thinks.

I think Merlin is well aware he doesn't know the whole story. That's one of the reasons he's tiptoeing around the Temple. It's also a good reason to handle Aivah, and her group with kid gloves.

Of course he may know the story by now, since RFC is being so cagey with his snippets. It just keeps all of us speculating.

Charybdis wrote:

DrakBibliophile wrote:One thing to remember is that this conversation was a "dance".

IMO Aivah was testing Merlin's reactions to see how much she could reveal.

She is sure about Merlin's other personas but she can't be completely sure about him especially about his goals.

Remember we don't know the full conversation between her and Merlin.

Hopefully, the third snippet will answer our questions about her group.

Just curious, have you EVER known RFC to answer questions in a SNIPPET? That makes me believe whenever the next snippet comes it will be from an entirely different section of the book.

Yes, but not the whole question or raising even more questions and speculations and basically driving his loyal readers insane waiting for the book to come out. Or he has shall we say misled us with his snippets he does release.

For example read snippets #6 and #7 LAMA

Dutch46 wrote:I think the best way for Merlin and the inner circle to proceed is to tell Aivah everything but be prepared to remove her, perhaps not permanently but certainly remove her ability to communicate with the outside world.

You know, I can't think of anything more likely to guarantee that Aivah's organization will become hostile to Merlin and Charis. If Aivah were to disappear AFTER going to Merlin to tell him about them, the natural conclusion is that Merlin/Charis had her eliminated. Or worse, brainwashed if they at least know about the bare bones about the reprogramming of the Adams and Eves, so even if Aivah shows back up she'd be frozen out of the organization.

And this is a group that Merlin with his advanced tech SNARCs can't find.

However Aivah reacts, I don't think making her "disappear" is really an option for Merlin and company.

It seems that Nynian is part of a conspiracy centered in Zion, the members of which are descended from another group of Pei Shan-wei's reeducated settlers. If this is, in fact, the case then I reiterate my theory that the Church of the Holy Archangel Bedard in Zion is a possible focal point for an this group. Pei Shan-Wei reeducated 212 settlers, and we've only heard about four of them (in Tellesberg) so far. I'm sure RFC has plans for telling us where the other 208 ended up to, and what their descendants are currently up to.

Remember, the Church of the Holy Angel Bedard is the church where the Circle used to meet before Clyntahn's purge of the Vicarate. As it says in BY SCHISM RENT ASUNDER, p 402:

"The Church of the Holy Archangel Bedard was quite old. Tradition had it that Archangel Bedard’s had been built within only a year or two of the Temple itself, although unlike the Temple, it was manifestly the work of mortal hands. And despite its antiquity, it was little used these days. It lay within less than two miles of the Temple, and any who could preferred to walk the additional few thousand yards to worship at the Temple. Despite that, its age, and the fact that the Bedartists considered it the mother church of their order, meant it was carefully maintained, and like every church, its doors were perpetually unlocked, open to any worshipper at any hour, as the law required"

This sounds like just the place where a conspiracy dating back to the "creation" could be headquartered. If this is the case, that this group group in Zion is centeded on this church, then this raises all kinds of grounds for interesting speculation.

Is the church connected by tunnel to the temple basement?

Was Bedard (the patron of this church) really a supporter of Langhorne, or was she just playing along out of fear, doing the reprogramming for him but secretly putting other, more positiive, plans in place? (remember, her order has become one of the most beneficial on Safehold).

Is this the location where the vicar assassins are working out of?

Remember, it is the only location in Zion, outside the Temple itself, which RFC specifically identified and described (unless we count Aivah's brothel), and we all know how sneaky he is in leaving little "innocuous" clues for us poor readers

Time will tell.

Philip Stanley

Hi Philip Stanley,

"Very interesting".

It may be as you say, but its too pat for a couple of reasons; first its use as a meeting place was obviously betrayed to the inquisition before Clyntahn actually struck, second your suggestion of Bedard's character, doesn't jive with our current textev about her from OAR onwards.

A third reason would be that such an obvious connection would be verboten to such a sophisticated organization, but if Nynian's organization does have some federation tech, such as various federation snoopers that Seijin Kohdy used, the church might have been bugged so Merlin and Charis's inner circle might finally get to to know the circle and what a loss that was.

This is besides the technical data of learning just how close Nynian's organization has been able to get their own sensors to the temple without triggering any known response, ie something of almost infinite worth to Merlin etc besides all the other important data shared.

Then there's learning about Duchairn's plans for a coup, if Nynian knows about them.

Since BGV is moving under winter conditions, will Duchairn also move this winter?

Is this why Nynian has to be there?

L

Philip Stanley wrote:It seems that Nynian is part of a conspiracy centered in Zion, the members of which are descended from another group of Pei Shan-wei's reeducated settlers. If this is, in fact, the case then I reiterate my theory that the Church of the Holy Archangel Bedard in Zion is a possible focal point for an this group. Pei Shan-Wei reeducated 212 settlers, and we've only heard about four of them (in Tellesberg) so far. I'm sure RFC has plans for telling us where the other 208 ended up to, and what their descendants are currently up to.

Remember, the Church of the Holy Angel Bedard is the church where the Circle used to meet before Clyntahn's purge of the Vicarate. As it says in BY SCHISM RENT ASUNDER, p 402:

"The Church of the Holy Archangel Bedard was quite old. Tradition had it that Archangel Bedard’s had been built within only a year or two of the Temple itself, although unlike the Temple, it was manifestly the work of mortal hands. And despite its antiquity, it was little used these days. It lay within less than two miles of the Temple, and any who could preferred to walk the additional few thousand yards to worship at the Temple. Despite that, its age, and the fact that the Bedartists considered it the mother church of their order, meant it was carefully maintained, and like every church, its doors were perpetually unlocked, open to any worshipper at any hour, as the law required"

This sounds like just the place where a conspiracy dating back to the "creation" could be headquartered. If this is the case, that this group group in Zion is centeded on this church, then this raises all kinds of grounds for interesting speculation.

Is the church connected by tunnel to the temple basement?

Was Bedard (the patron of this church) really a supporter of Langhorne, or was she just playing along out of fear, doing the reprogramming for him but secretly putting other, more positiive, plans in place? (remember, her order has become one of the most beneficial on Safehold).

Is this the location where the vicar assassins are working out of?

Remember, it is the only location in Zion, outside the Temple itself, which RFC specifically identified and described (unless we count Aivah's brothel), and we all know how sneaky he is in leaving little "innocuous" clues for us poor readers

Time will tell.

Philip Stanley

Philip Stanley wrote:Is the church connected by tunnel to the temple basement?

I hadn't considered just where such a tunnel might lead to, but the idea that Paiter Wylsynn might only know of one way into the basement(s) had occurred to me. Perhaps Aivah knows of (has access to) one or more escape tunnels that bypasses the Temple's sensors?

The Church of Bedard is certainly a good candidate for the terminus of such a secret tunnel, although it probably isn't the only candidate.

Does Aivah know that Merlin can't enter the temple?

Argh I've missed this all weekend because I didn't think there would be another snippet for a fair while yet. Thank you RFC. Don't get used to it guys, LAMA was one every 10 days and publication is a looong way off ...

Amazing how little we actually know even yet. Aivah belongs to a secret organisation with strong connections to Zion which has been running for a very long time and is based on a written record from 'a rather different perspective' than the one the Bretheren have. She professes a strong interest in Seijins, Kohdy in particular, and hints the records she has seen tell a very different story about him than public ones. She hates Clyntahn and what he is doing to the Church. She does not believe the creation story. After talking to her for several hours, audited and assisted by OWL and Nahrman no doubt, Merlin believes she doesn't know about SNARCs or coms. That's about it.

I wonder if it's possible to lie successfully to a Federation AI who has lots of samples of your normal voice? I suspect not. Which doesn't mean she hasn't told the truth selectively. If she really has no idea about coms it seems unlikely she has any knowledge about the Federation. So her organisation aren't backers of Langhorne's real plan, nor of the 'Church' part of it since they don't believe in creation. It is a fair assumption that her organisation has only recently started active ops otherwise they would have been spotted. (If no -one know you are there you can develop expertise by sending some of your people to serve in the Guard or Inquisition or as hunters and trackers etc and get training that way.)

I think she has been investigated cursorily; they have a whole planet to survey and lots of enemies who are higher up the watch list than their allies. Now of course all records of her get reviewed by Nahrman in accelerated time, knowing what he is looking for. Be interesting to see what he turns up. And she gets her own full cover surveillance. They will also 'follow the money' upstream. I don't think her organisation can really hide from them now they know it's there. The best way to keep a secret is to ensure that no-one realises there is a secret. Which implies Aivah really trusts Merlin or really, really needs this ride to Zion.

Hi Phil and Philip!

Don't forget, the Temple was built AFTER the War of the Fallen started (If not after the war itself) and iirc Bedard did not survive the war. If the Church of Bedard was built a year after the Temple of Zion itself, It would have been built after Bedard's death - or the perfect time to hijack a portion of the religion with it's segment leader dead and the entire church in flux reeling from the War of the Fallen.

A separate Church, away from the main structure yet still externally espousing the same religion, would be the perfect place to hide something - especially if the one leading the effort had perfect credentials in the church's eyes.

lyonheart wrote:Hi Philip Stanley,

"Very interesting".

It may be as you say, but its too pat for a couple of reasons; first its use as a meeting place was obviously betrayed to the inquisition before Clyntahn actually struck, second your suggestion of Bedard's character, doesn't jive with our current textev about her from OAR onwards.

A third reason would be that such an obvious connection would be verboten to such a sophisticated organization, but if Nynian's organization does have some federation tech, such as various federation snoopers that Seijin Kohdy used, the church might have been bugged so Merlin and Charis's inner circle might finally get to to know the circle and what a loss that was.

This is besides the technical data of learning just how close Nynian's organization has been able to get their own sensors to the temple without triggering any known response, ie something of almost infinite worth to Merlin etc besides all the other important data shared.

Then there's learning about Duchairn's plans for a coup, if Nynian knows about them.

Since BGV is moving under winter conditions, will Duchairn also move this winter?

Is this why Nynian has to be there?

L

Philip Stanley wrote:It seems that Nynian is part of a conspiracy centered in Zion, the members of which are descended from another group of Pei Shan-wei's reeducated settlers. If this is, in fact, the case then I reiterate my theory that the Church of the Holy Archangel Bedard in Zion is a possible focal point for an this group. Pei Shan-Wei reeducated 212 settlers, and we've only heard about four of them (in Tellesberg) so far. I'm sure RFC has plans for telling us where the other 208 ended up to, and what their descendants are currently up to.

Remember, the Church of the Holy Angel Bedard is the church where the Circle used to meet before Clyntahn's purge of the Vicarate. As it says in BY SCHISM RENT ASUNDER, p 402:

"The Church of the Holy Archangel Bedard was quite old. Tradition had it that Archangel Bedard’s had been built within only a year or two of the Temple itself, although unlike the Temple, it was manifestly the work of mortal hands. And despite its antiquity, it was little used these days. It lay within less than two miles of the Temple, and any who could preferred to walk the additional few thousand yards to worship at the Temple. Despite that, its age, and the fact that the Bedartists considered it the mother church of their order, meant it was carefully maintained, and like every church, its doors were perpetually unlocked, open to any worshipper at any hour, as the law required"

This sounds like just the place where a conspiracy dating back to the "creation" could be headquartered. If this is the case, that this group group in Zion is centeded on this church, then this raises all kinds of grounds for interesting speculation.

Is the church connected by tunnel to the temple basement?

Was Bedard (the patron of this church) really a supporter of Langhorne, or was she just playing along out of fear, doing the reprogramming for him but secretly putting other, more positiive, plans in place? (remember, her order has become one of the most beneficial on Safehold).

Is this the location where the vicar assassins are working out of?

Remember, it is the only location in Zion, outside the Temple itself, which RFC specifically identified and described (unless we count Aivah's brothel), and we all know how sneaky he is in leaving little "innocuous" clues for us poor readers

Time will tell.

Philip Stanley