Hey the OBS is solar powered!

HFaF:

And if Wylsynn's right about something "returning" in a thousand years, I may just need all the reinforcements I can get, he thought grimly. This is the year 895, but they've numbered their “Years of God” from the end of "Shan-wei's Rebellion," from the time the Church of God turned into the Church of God Awaiting. The Day of Creation was seventy years — Standard Years, not Safeholdian ones – before that. And that makes this year 979 since the Creation. Which means we've got twenty years, give or take, before whatever's going to happen happens.

lyonheart wrote:Hi Duckk,

I could need some help here, but from what I remember, in one of his posts RFC referred to the period involving the war of the fallen, the building of the temple and the last of the archangels etc 'going away' as around 200 Safehold years or so; plus a counting error that resulted in some confusion regarding the thousand year figure cited before the archangels came back.

It probably included the whole period from the creation, but as I recall, the roughly 200 years added to the almost 900 years being counted helped partly explain the 1000 years confusion when Terran years were ~10% longer.

Please feel free to clear up the details I mixed up.

L

Duckk wrote:HFaF:

And if Wylsynn's right about something "returning" in a thousand years, I may just need all the reinforcements I can get, he thought grimly. This is the year 895, but they've numbered their “Years of God” from the end of "Shan-wei's Rebellion," from the time the Church of God turned into the Church of God Awaiting. The Day of Creation was seventy years — Standard Years, not Safeholdian ones – before that. And that makes this year 979 since the Creation. Which means we've got twenty years, give or take, before whatever's going to happen happens.

lyonheart wrote:Hi Duckk,

I could need some help here, but from what I remember, in one of his posts RFC referred to the period involving the war of the fallen, the building of the temple and the last of the archangels etc 'going away' as around 200 Safehold years or so; plus a counting error that resulted in some confusion regarding the thousand year figure cited before the archangels came back.

It probably included the whole period from the creation, but as I recall, the roughly 200 years added to the almost 900 years being counted helped partly explain the 1000 years confusion when Terran years were ~10% longer.

Please feel free to clear up the details I mixed up.

L

AND according to HFQ Snippet #1 - It is now March of 897, which means that there is only 18 years and change until BOOGYMAN!

Only RFC can string us out for 7 books and 42k+ pages and have us speculating on what in under the Temple and what might return at 1k years. RFC is not a kind man, he is a PUSHER, an enabler of addiction, an addiction to SAFEHOLD. He takes my money to the bank and laughs!

Duckk wrote:Secondly, there's no way to guarantee that destroying or otherwise negating the OBS isn't going to trigger something in the Temple. The Inner Circle most definitely does not want to wake up whatever it is that's sleeping under the Temple. They have to deal with the Church first before thinking about getting rid of the Rakurai.

If the OBS were negated, though, why would a wake-up be a problem? With the OBS neutralized, Merlin almost certainly has more Federation military tech than could be under the Temple (unless the Temple basement is absolutely gigantic, which I think Merlin's sensors would probably detect when he was looking at the power sources there).

I guess a Federation-tech conflict, being seen as an angel/demon war, could reinforce Langhorne's religion; but depending on how much of it was seen, could also weaken it.

If the OBS were negated, though, why would a wake-up be a problem? With the OBS neutralized, Merlin almost certainly has more Federation military tech than could be under the Temple (unless the Temple basement is absolutely gigantic, which I think Merlin's sensors would probably detect when he was looking at the power sources there).

I guess a Federation-tech conflict, being seen as an angel/demon war, could reinforce Langhorne's religion; but depending on how much of it was seen, could also weaken it.

You don't think an Archangel issuing orders out of the Temple (assuming that's what's under there) isn't a wee bit problematic? Even Reformists would have a hard time arguing against instructions from that quarter. It isn't about the who has the bigger gun; it's about who can win the hearts and minds of the people of Safehold. It's one thing to rebel against the instructions of the Group of Four in general and Clytahn in particular. It's another thing entirely to get Safehold to reject their programming in the reverence of the Archangels.

Cralkhi wrote:

If the OBS were negated, though, why would a wake-up be a problem? With the OBS neutralized, Merlin almost certainly has more Federation military tech than could be under the Temple (unless the Temple basement is absolutely gigantic, which I think Merlin's sensors would probably detect when he was looking at the power sources there).

I guess a Federation-tech conflict, being seen as an angel/demon war, could reinforce Langhorne's religion; but depending on how much of it was seen, could also weaken it.

Duckk replied:

You don't think an Archangel issuing orders out of the Temple (assuming that's what's under there) isn't a wee bit problematic? Even Reformists would have a hard time arguing against instructions from that quarter. It isn't about the who has the bigger gun; it's about who can win the hearts and minds of the people of Safehold. It's one thing to rebel against the instructions of the Group of Four in general and Clytahn in particular. It's another thing entirely to get Safehold to reject their programming in the reverence of the Archangels.

Actually, if a Temple AI woke up, it could really have a problem. The CoGA is so corrupt and veered far from what was intended for the church, but the Charisians are pushing the technology. Damned if they do and damned if they don't. And can you imagine how Clyntahn would react to harsh criticism from an Archangel? I think he would declare the archangel a demon.

I honestly don't know how the AI under the Temple would react, or how a suspended intelligence would react.

I should also ask how "the word" would be spread? Without electronic communications, the Temple would have to send out vehicles to spread the word - and OWL is a tactical computer with SNARKs, 2 skimmers, and an Assault Shuttle. Could be interesting.

-- Bob G

BobG wrote:Actually, if a Temple AI woke up, it could really have a problem. The CoGA is so corrupt and veered far from what was intended for the church, but the Charisians are pushing the technology. Damned if they do and damned if they don't. And can you imagine how Clyntahn would react to harsh criticism from an Archangel? I think he would declare the archangel a demon.

I honestly don't know how the AI under the Temple would react, or how a suspended intelligence would react.

Well, if the AI is in FULL CONTROL of the Temple (and why wouldn't it be?), it could start by shutting down the life support to certain rooms... or even the whole Temple. In the middle of a Zion winter no less. Or how about locking all the doors so that even the override wands don't work? That doesn't even have to be lethal; just wait until someone leaves their room and lock the door behind them. Office empty for the night? Locked. Room with all the important Inquisition records left unattended for a moment while the clerk had to go to the bathroom? Locked. An AI could probably lock down half the Temple before the residents realized what was going on.

I recall a passage in one of the books that the "mystically" maintained light and warmth of the Temple was taken as a sign of God's approval. So take that away...

And that's assuming the builders weren't so paranoid that they put in hidden weapon stations everywhere.

cralkhi wrote:If the OBS were negated, though, why would a wake-up be a problem? ...

One possible scenario:

It wouldn't surprise me to find that the Temple includes a holographic public address system, capable of projecting the image of an archangel one or two hundred feet tall with a "voice" covering the entire city of Zion and environs.

Nor would it surprise me to find that whatever lies sleeping under the Temple has immediate access to said PA system.

Assuming a worst case scenario of the sleeper endorsing everything Clyntahn has done, how much damage could a hundred foot tall archangel exhorting the faithful to destroy Charis and Siddarmark do to Charisian and Siddarmarkian morale?

Somehow I don't see Clyntahn as the type of person to give up power willingly, even if to a 'supposely Archangel'. Especially if the 'Archangel' is unable to project any physical presence with only PA systems and holograms.

What are the odds if the AI in the temple wakes up and start giving orders contrary to Clyntahn, Clyntahn will declare the demonic forces of Shanwei has seize the temple and the faithful are to continue their Jihad outside the temple.

Clyntahn is a psychopath, but it's psychopathy in service to the religion he truly believes in. If an Archangel really showed up, he'd obey it.

Duckk wrote:Clyntahn is a psychopath, but it's psychopathy in service to the religion he truly believes in. If an Archangel really showed up, he'd obey it.

If an archangel that fundamentally disagreed with him showed up Clyntahn would truly believe it was a demon or some deception of Shan Wei and act accordingly. One thing the books definitely make clear about the man is that he reshapes reality to fit in with his own desires.

Seems clear that it would be prudent to coordinate the high tech enabled raid on the Temple to deal with the sleeper with taking down the OBS. Once the threat of imminent mass destruction is gone it's time to take out the sleeper too.
Holographic emitters and speakers have to be outside the Temple dome, don't they? OWL isn't going to let them survive very long once he can make full use of snarcs and the assault shuttle (a tactical AI as someone pointed out.) Now I think of it I wonder how much EW capability and ability to attack and suborn enemy AIs that implies, given access to the Temple and come kind of interface to whatever runs the maintenance program. 'R2D2 we need you over here!' kind of thing.