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Does Safehold need a Switzerland?

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Does Safehold need a Switzerland?
Post by Charybdis   » Tue Aug 12, 2014 11:33 am

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Given that RFC is such a student of history and as Merlin is the possessor of TF History, I'm wondering if a Switzerland is not somewhere in Safehold's future. The value of neutral territory in large-scale conflicts is well-known in history. As a place where goods, spies, money, information can be exchanged in safety frequently works to everyone's benefit.

Obviously in Safehold's Theocracy prior to Nimue's awakening, there was no place nor reason for such to exist. Now in this bi-polar world between the Empire of Charis and the Church of God Awaiting (CoGA), it might be a very good thing. The problem is where and how.

Any spot chosen would disturb the CoGA because they would find it difficult to concede territory even to a neutral authority. However loathsome to someone like Clyntahn, someone like Duchairn would probably find it useful for his more practical purposes. For Charis, a logical use would be to establish a bank where CoGA and EoC assets could be neutrally monetized and valued. A widely accepted neutral currency would probably help Duchairn in his desperate struggle to straighten out the finances of the CoGA while the House of Ahrmahk would find it a good, non-inflationary place to put the coming treasure from Silverlode.
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Re: Does Safehold need a Switzerland?
Post by pokermind   » Tue Aug 12, 2014 11:42 am

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It had one until the Sword of Schuler, you did not get the historical allusions to Switzerland, a republic, the pike regiments ;)

But I agree on the banking being something Charis might think about after the war. Kinda stupid to make loans to people who believe there can be no binding agreements with Heretics ;)

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Charybdis wrote:Given that RFC is such a student of history and as Merlin is the possessor of TF History, I'm wondering if a Switzerland is not somewhere in Safehold's future. The value of neutral territory in large-scale conflicts is well-known in history. As a place where goods, spies, money, information can be exchanged in safety frequently works to everyone's benefit.

Obviously in Safehold's Theocracy prior to Nimue's awakening, there was no place nor reason for such to exist. Now in this bi-polar world between the Empire of Charis and the Church of God Awaiting (CoGA), it might be a very good thing. The problem is where and how.

Any spot chosen would disturb the CoGA because they would find it difficult to concede territory even to a neutral authority. However loathsome to someone like Clyntahn, someone like Duchairn would probably find it useful for his more practical purposes. For Charis, a logical use would be to establish a bank where CoGA and EoC assets could be neutrally monetized and valued. A widely accepted neutral currency would probably help Duchairn in his desperate struggle to straighten out the finances of the CoGA while the House of Ahrmahk would find it a good, non-inflationary place to put the coming treasure from Silverlode.
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Re: Does Safehold need a Switzerland?
Post by SWM   » Tue Aug 12, 2014 11:48 am

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During the war, it would not be possible, because the Church's stance is (must be) that no nation can be independent of Mother Church. Any nation which is not subservient to Mother Church is apostate and must be crushed. There can be no Switzerland in such a policy.

After the war, it depends on how the war ends. I know that a lot of people insist that there will be a cold war between the lands remaining loyal to the CoGA and the Charisian allies, but I still say that is not necessarily what will happen. So whether there could be a Switzerland, and the nature of this Switzerland, is highly dependent on exactly what happens in the rest of the war.

In any case, if there is a Switzerland, it will not be because the CoC and Charis mutually agree to set aside a territory as a neutral land. It will be because some land decides to be neutral.
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Re: Does Safehold need a Switzerland?
Post by Charybdis   » Tue Aug 12, 2014 1:00 pm

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pokermind wrote:It had one until the Sword of Schuler, you did not get the historical allusions to Switzerland, a republic, the pike regiments ;)

But I agree on the banking being something Charis might think about after the war. Kinda stupid to make loans to people who believe there can be no binding agreements with Heretics ;)

Poker

Yes, that did come to mind with the pike regiments but under the Theocracy, Siddermark was, at best, a de facto Switzerland and even then knew that it was in the crossbow sights of the Church (read Clyntahn). One of the reasons that Switzerland became what it is comes from military prowess, natural defenses and the ultimate defense of no one wanting to destroy the repository of golden eggs.

For the same thing on Safehold, you'd need either a well defended island or a mountain fortress type with a bloody-minded populace. A spot that comes to my mind is Glacier Heart which after all the fighting going through there would have the respect of all concerned. The fly-in-the-ointment would be whether Siddermark or the native populace desire it on their own.
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Re: Does Safehold need a Switzerland?
Post by Starsaber   » Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:04 pm

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In conflicts prior to this, I imagine the Temple Lands would have filled the "neutral land" role, which doesn't really work this time.
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Re: Does Safehold need a Switzerland?
Post by Tonto Silerheels   » Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:23 pm

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Charybdiswrote : A widely accepted neutral currency would probably help Duchairn in his desperate struggle to straighten out the finances of the CoGA while the House of Ahrmahk would find it a good, non-inflationary place to put the coming treasure from Silverlode.

It sounds like you're suggesting that Charis should, indirectly, loan gold to the Church of God Awaiting. I think that would be very good for the Church and very bad for Charis, particularly considering that Charis can simply leave that gold in the ground and it won't cause inflation.

Leaving that point for the moment, though, and turning to the non-inflationary aspect, Milton Friedman has said that inflation is always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon. What he meant by that is that if you increase the money supply without increasing production then you will have inflation. (I'm glossing over the velocity of money here.) If he's right then Charis can't put that money anywhere except towards increasing production without causing inflation. And the one place they don't want production to be increased is in lands controlled by the Church of God Awaiting.

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Re: Does Safehold need a Switzerland?
Post by kbus888   » Tue Aug 12, 2014 11:53 pm

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=2014/08/13=
How about the Raven lands becoming neutral ??

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Re: Does Safehold need a Switzerland?
Post by Direwolf18   » Wed Aug 13, 2014 6:13 am

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There are two major problems with Glaciarheart being neutral. Well 3.

First its part of Siddimark, and not just any part, these people are some of the most stubbornly loyal people you will ever meet. The price they paid meeting the traitors with their bare hands is ghastly. Ask Wahlys Mahkhom about that.

Second its smack dab in the middle of Siddimark, so you would have to pass through hundreds of miles of Siddimark to get there. Siddimark of course being a non nuetral country at this point. They were the Switzerland of this series, no more.

And of course number three. The real killer. Glaciarheart lacks anyone who is nuetral, I believe the sentiment expresed by the Charisan manufacture, about not resting until the last temple loyalist chokes out their last maggot ridden breath kinda encapsulates the entire area. Not exactly a good neutral third party at this point.


I could see Sikliah taking that roll however, it is still a major crossroads. However so long as there is anyone resembling Clynthan in charge it can't happen, he would massacre them to prove a point.
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Re: Does Safehold need a Switzerland?
Post by pokermind   » Wed Aug 13, 2014 6:50 am

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Like in the WW II Allied case with Hitler, the EoC does not want to see Clynthan removed, he manages to step on his own crank at least once in every book :D Clynthan removed any neutrals with his "You are either for us or against us," attitude. This has removed open resistance to his policies, but many hate his guts and loathe his policies on his side. Should the EoC forces surround Sikliah thus protecting them from Clynthan I could see them become neutral or joining Charis.

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Re: Does Safehold need a Switzerland?
Post by PeterZ   » Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:22 am

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The only place that makes sense would be the Border Kingdoms after the current war pauses. I can see Siddermark occupying a goodly chunk of that territory but not annexing them. Keeping that area demilitarized, neutral and open to commerce from both sides would benefit both parties.
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