Counter Missile

I mentioned previously using missiles as counter missile so I will skip that and Long Range CM which leads to the DDM CM and such but with the need to increase the number of CM tubes and the lack of space for the CM tubes and PD and Body tubes etc... Take the Nike for instance couldn't one just fire a CM through the normal Missile tubes? Smaller missile can be fired through larger tubes after all. One could carry a set of Counter missiles to fire through the larger tubes. In the case of the Nike increasing the CM tubes from 30 or so per broadside to 55+.

Lord Skimper wrote:I mentioned previously using missiles as counter missile so I will skip that and Long Range CM which leads to the DDM CM and such but with the need to increase the number of CM tubes and the lack of space for the CM tubes and PD and Body tubes etc... Take the Nike for instance couldn't one just fire a CM through the normal Missile tubes? Smaller missile can be fired through larger tubes after all. One could carry a set of Counter missiles to fire through the larger tubes. In the case of the Nike increasing the CM tubes from 30 or so per broadside to 55+.

Or you could even fire some sort of canister of CMs allowing for multiple CMs to be launched from each main tube. You really need to read the infodumps Skimper, you might actually be able to come up with some good ideas after doing it.

Anyway CM-canisters aren't used because the limiter on CM numbers is control links rather than the ability to launch them and canisters wouldn't be a good solution due to the much lower rate of fire of the shipkiller tubes compared to CM tubes.

Grashtel wrote:Or you could even fire some sort of canister of CMs allowing for multiple CMs to be launched from each main tube. You really need to read the infodumps Skimper, you might actually be able to come up with some good ideas after doing it.

Anyway CM-canisters aren't used because the limiter on CM numbers is control links rather than the ability to launch them and canisters wouldn't be a good solution due to the much lower rate of fire of the shipkiller tubes compared to CM tubes.

Or he could reread the books. Then he might remember the concrete example we saw of your point on control links.

In At All Costs we saw that even the newest Invictus-class SD(P)s can already fire more CMs than they can control; despite their Keyholes. (Could fire 11 CM salvos against the stacked launch; could only control 8)


Adding more CM launches is pointless until someone figures out how to control more of them, so like you said Skimper is focusing on the wrong problem.

It depends if you're using the telemetry control links to control offensive missiles or not, if not those same links could be used for CM's.

Lord Skimper wrote:It depends if you're using the telemetry control links to control offensive missiles or not, if not those same links could be used for CM's.

Oh for the love of.... Again, for the twentyith time, read the pearls. A CM control link and SKM control link are not interchangeable.

crewdude48 wrote:

Lord Skimper wrote:It depends if you're using the telemetry control links to control offensive missiles or not, if not those same links could be used for CM's.

Oh for the love of.... Again, for the twentyith time, read the pearls. A CM control link and SKM control link are not interchangeable.

Don't bother ranting at him. When you do, he just puts another set of headphones over the earplugs and headphones he already has on.

crewdude48 wrote:

Lord Skimper wrote:It depends if you're using the telemetry control links to control offensive missiles or not, if not those same links could be used for CM's.

Oh for the love of.... Again, for the twentyith time, read the pearls. A CM control link and SKM control link are not interchangeable.

For your sanity, Skimper is best set to ignore.

Or, "don't feed the troll!"

If you're using your main tubes to fire the CM you can use the telemetry for those tubes to link the ship to those CM.

Works much better for the smaller ships that lack many CM tubes. Like the Wolfhound or Avalon. Which are also the ships that would need to multiply their CM options.

On the other hand if you think that main telemetry can only be used with a specific missiles, for some reason, then the smaller ships that have so few CM tubes should have left over telemetry if the designers did their job.

Of course we could all just assume the designers didn't build any redundancy into the defensive telemetry, although I can't think of why. It isn't like these ship ever get damaged or anything.

As for pointing out that the only ship that has its telemetry maxed defensively also has so many more CM tubes than any other ship and has no main missile tubes anyway. That would be...one will just assume you didn't do that.

Lord Skimper wrote:If you're using your main tubes to fire the CM you can use the telemetry for those tubes to link the ship to those CM.

Works much better for the smaller ships that lack many CM tubes. Like the Wolfhound or Avalon. Which are also the ships that would need to multiply their CM options.

On the other hand if you think that main telemetry can only be used with a specific missiles, for some reason, then the smaller ships that have so few CM tubes should have left over telemetry if the designers did their job.

Of course we could all just assume the designers didn't build any redundancy into the defensive telemetry, although I can't think of why. It isn't like these ship ever get damaged or anything.

As for pointing out that the only ship that has its telemetry maxed defensively also has so many more CM tubes than any other ship and has no main missile tubes anyway. That would be...one will just assume you didn't do that.

Look, the point they were trying --- unsuccessfully --- to make to you is that the telemetry links are dedicated and that the dedication is based on the type of missile they are designed to control. You can't suddenly start using the main battery fire control of an Iowa-class BB to control its 40 mm mounts, and you CAN'T use the telemetry links of the shipkiller tubes to manage counter missiles. Not "Wouldn't it be cool if," not "Well of course, they could, except that they're too stupid to figure out it would be a good idea," not "Of course no one else in the 2,000-year history of the Honorverse ever even considered this new and brilliant idea," but "can't because it's impossible."

Don't know how anyone could say it any clearer, but you are completely, totally, and categorically wasting your time beating this dead horse. Just as you are with the notion that somehow putting a PD laser into a counter missile would produce anything remotely like a useful weapon system, or that deploying mines to stop missiles would be remotely worth the effort (or even physically possible), or that you can somehow use missile or drone impeller wedges to cover a ship against incoming fire.

The fact that you repeatedly throw out these ideas and then totally ignore people who tell you they won't work --- including ignoring me when I tell you the idea is impossible under Honorverse tech constraints --- means that no one in his right mind is going to pay attention or notice when you actually come up with something that might actually work for a change.

Grashtel wrote:

Lord Skimper wrote:I mentioned previously using missiles as counter missile so I will skip that and Long Range CM which leads to the DDM CM and such but with the need to increase the number of CM tubes and the lack of space for the CM tubes and PD and Body tubes etc... Take the Nike for instance couldn't one just fire a CM through the normal Missile tubes? Smaller missile can be fired through larger tubes after all. One could carry a set of Counter missiles to fire through the larger tubes. In the case of the Nike increasing the CM tubes from 30 or so per broadside to 55+.

Or you could even fire some sort of canister of CMs allowing for multiple CMs to be launched from each main tube. You really need to read the infodumps Skimper, you might actually be able to come up with some good ideas after doing it.

Anyway CM-canisters aren't used because the limiter on CM numbers is control links rather than the ability to launch them and canisters wouldn't be a good solution due to the much lower rate of fire of the shipkiller tubes compared to CM tubes.

In addition, I should probably point out that you can't launch a missile *that* much smaller than the tube through it. Unless you put a *really* big collar on a CM, it can't be fired through a normal missile tube. All missiles only have a couple centimeters of clearance between the skin of the missile and the inner surface of the launch tube *at most*. IOW, if the missile is 1 meter in diameter, the inside diameter of the launch tube cannot - let me repeat *CANNOT* - be larger than 1 meter, 4 centimeters or so.

To expand on RFC's analogy, you can't fire 40mm rounds through the 16" barrels of an Iowa's main guns.