HFQ Official Snippet #1

This is where it all gets a bit greasy when we try to pin things down. The Brethren of St. Zhearnau were not founded by Pei Shanwei. They were founded by one of the seedlings, Jeremiah Knowles, who drew inspiration from her long after she was killed. In fact, Shanwei didn't found any group at all that we have textev for.

So RFC is playing with us a bit again... sort of like his statement a few months back that Charis had no official war aim to invade the temple lands when it turns out that Charis had no officially stated war aim at all that we have from the textev.

Our noble author would never actually lie to us, but as Admiral Courvisier said, "A surprise is usually something you have been seeing all along that turns out to be different than what you thought it was." RFC is a master at those sorts of tactics.

Don

Chuckle Chuckle

You really enjoy this game don't you.

runsforcelery wrote:

DrakBibliophile wrote:While you're correct that it doesn't matter if she's a member of a group founded by Shan-wei or not, IIRC David Weber did say that she's not a member of a group founded by Shan-wei.

Now that Weber comment did leave it open to her being a member of a "secret group" founded by somebody other than Shan-wei.

Now it beginning to look like she is a member of a "secret group" perhaps founded by Kody (whoever he really was).

Nope. He didn't have a thing to do with organizing anything remotely related to her life.

RFC wrote "Nope. He [Kody (whoever he really was)] didn't have a thing to do with organizing anything remotely related to her life. "

RFC wrote "Guys, she turns 52 (Safeholdian; 47 Standard) in September 897. Her father was neither the current GV, nor his predecessor. And, yes, she was adopted and raised by Adorai's parents." [Her father did become a GV, and Adorai's parents put her in a nunnery when he became the GV.]

Putting further speculation on the group she belongs too, hum, We'll wait for the rest of it I guess to explain all

A real plot twist would be the Group was founded by the real Schuler of the memory stone, not the psychopath who wrote the Book of Schuler

Poker

runsforcelery wrote:Nope. He didn't have a thing to do with organizing anything remotely related to her life.

Didn't organize but might Khody have inspired Aivah's longstanding organization? Perhaps Khody was simply a footnote in one of her organization's library of historical documents. Regardless, Aivah's organization might well have been around for quite a bit longer than the 52 years since her birth.

Icarium wrote:Not to mention I believe MWW said that the implants needed for NEATs and stuff need to be implanted when the child is very young.

It's just not possible. Aivah is not an immortal manipulator or whatever other crazy theory people have. There's way too much evidence that she is just who she says she is, a woman who was born of an affair by a churchman.

You're assuming that the memory obliteration and distortion technology is the same as the NEAT technology.

phillies wrote:

Icarium wrote:Not to mention I believe MWW said that the implants needed for NEATs and stuff need to be implanted when the child is very young.

It's just not possible. Aivah is not an immortal manipulator or whatever other crazy theory people have. There's way too much evidence that she is just who she says she is, a woman who was born of an affair by a churchman.

You're assuming that the memory obliteration and distortion technology is the same as the NEAT technology.

Why shouldn't it be? We already have textev that high speed data transfers REQUIRES NEAT tech (or in Nahrmahn's case, jury rigged medical nanites that literally ate his brains). And if you're going to erase someone's memory, replace said memories with something innocuous and safe, AND do it fast enough that said someone won't be noticed as missing, I would think such a task would require high speed data transfer.

...


And on a side note, I think it might be a REAL plot twist if Aivah really did figure out everything on her own, including the part that the Adams and Eves came from somewhere other than what the Holy Writ said. Super secret organization? Built herself based on her nunnery training, with the possibility of the nunnery secretly being a female version of the Inquisition... only you know, more moral. Seijin Kohdy? An inspiration and personal hero, nothing more. Figuring out the Holy Writ is a lie? Brains, logic, and being critical of the way the Church is run in some sense REQUIRES analysis of the Writ itself to see how the Church should be run... and then noticing little inconsistencies most people overlook.

As Merlin said to Cayleb in book 1, if the men that run the Church NOW can lie and murder for the sake of their own power, why can't men lie and murder by pretending to be Archangels and building a Church around that lie? Safehold has plenty of evidence for Angels being less than perfect goodness after all, and I'll bet a critical eye reading between the lines of official history will notice alot of spin doctoring, and maybe even that all the parts about the Angels being Angels and the origins of the Adams and Eves and even the reasons for Shan Wei's rebellion came from the Angels themselves with NO outside verification.

So is all that likely? Probably not. But it would be a real plot twist if it were. Because if it were, then here is someone who figured out the Truth (or at least the Lie) with no outside help, no secretly passed on ancient secrets. She would have seen through Langhorne's Lie entirely with her own brains and critical eye for detail.

If Aivah had truly figured out the Lie on her own, that makes her more than Charis, more than Cayleb and Sharleyan, more even than the Inner Circle, EXACTLY what Merlin is looking for in Charis: the spirit of independent inquiry and innovation.

runsforcelery wrote:
Guys, she turns 52 (Safeholdian; 47 Standard) in September 897. SNIP

very small detail :
Turning 52 in September 897 means she had been born in September 845, so in June 892 she was 46 years old. In Chapter V of June 892 in BSRA she is quoted as 45... but let's take the last indication from the Master, here, as the right data for the wikia, and not fuss about it

hey, remember the golden rule about a womans age: It's whatever they want it to be....

Braudel26 wrote:

runsforcelery wrote:
Guys, she turns 52 (Safeholdian; 47 Standard) in September 897. SNIP

very small detail :
Turning 52 in September 897 means she had been born in September 845, so in June 892 she was 46 years old. In Chapter V of June 892 in BSRA she is quoted as 45... but let's take the last indication from the Master, here, as the right data for the wikia, and not fuss about it

I went to bed last night dreaming about "the most beautiful woman I ever met"... only to discover this morning that she was laying beside me...

Seriously, gang, great discussion of a wonderful snippet. I thimk that the speculation about Seijin Khody is spot on. While other alternatives can't be ruled out, either he founded the group or at minimim had close ties with it.

The notion that Aivah could have figured out the truth by logical deduction seems to me to be a bit far fetched. She simply wouldn't have had enough info to base her premises on. At best, by negative inference she could have decided that if the story in the writ is false, the original Adams and Eves had to have come from elsewhere. Although she didn't have any knowledge of where, I still think that combining this snippit with everything else we know about Aivah, she is best explained as a menber of a covert group providing inherited knowledge and training.

Don

Wonder what went on in that nunnery? Was it something like what we know goes on at St. Z's? And what are the implications of that?

Shhh. Secret stuff from religious orders.

That's all from me until the book arrives.