Eggs in a Basket

DrakBibliophile wrote:IIRC the forces in Zion answering to Clyntahn out-number the forces answering to Magwair (this was from the thoughts of Vicar Magwair).

Our favorite Grand Inquisitor may be crazy but he's not stupid.

Annachie wrote:No, the inquistion don't control the temple guards. That's Magwhahr isn't it.

Might be a matter of Duchairn killing Clyntahn in a private Go4 meeting and then Duchairn & Magwair presenting everyone else with a fait accompli. Under THAT situation the morale advantage might be very much on the Temple Guard side.

I wish.

Both Word Of Weber and text evidence tells us that Clyntahn has plenty of supporters within the Inquistition and has promoted them to high positions within the Inquistition.

Taking out Clyntahn is "easy" but preventing a new (or better) Clyntahn from taking his place is much harder.

Also, don't forget Rayno.

He's Clyntahn de facto second-in-command, so he could "hold things together" until another Clyntahn-like Grand Inquisitor can be chosen.

cralkhi wrote:

DrakBibliophile wrote:IIRC the forces in Zion answering to Clyntahn out-number the forces answering to Magwair (this was from the thoughts of Vicar Magwair).

Our favorite Grand Inquisitor may be crazy but he's not stupid.

Might be a matter of Duchairn killing Clyntahn in a private Go4 meeting and then Duchairn & Magwair presenting everyone else with a fait accompli. Under THAT situation the morale advantage might be very much on the Temple Guard side.

I suspect that any attempt to kill Clyntahn would have a less than even chance of success. Duchairn or anyone else who tried would be at least as likely to be martyred in the attempt.

And should the attempt succeed, the only chance for replacing Clynthan with someone better would be for Maigwair to have a fairly strong force ready to move into Zion to restrain the inquisition.

Don

Hi Dwileye13,

Unfortunately the IHA or the MHoGatA, is at least 2000 miles away on the Langhorne canal, or around 40-50 days with no way to sneak up on Clyntahn, so whatever Duchairn intends, the IHA isn't directly involved.

It might be he's noticed most of the inquisitor units in Zion tend to stay in their quarters during the winter, where bad things might happen suddenly, reducing their numbers to something he thinks is more manageable for whatever force he's created.

Nynian may have gotten a whiff of what he's up to, and feels she needs to check it out or be there to oversee her organization's response.

L

dwileye13 wrote:

evilauthor wrote:*quote="dwileye13"*
Time for a Divine appearance or an insurrection within the Church?*quote*

Defending forces defeated. Enemy on the doorstep and about to invade. No hope for military victory in sight.

Would it be a good thing or a bad thing (storywise) if Duchairn pulled a Theisman?

Good Question,
Obviously Duchairn is up to something, what - that is a quandry. RFC is taking us to the unleashing of the Harchong Army, but onto whom?

Clyntahn is not happy with Denair or Dohlar to a great extent. The 1st conflict in the Temple is who orders the Army where.

From TextEv it seems the Harchong Army has a good idea that Duchairn and Magwhahr are their benefactors in removing the previous bad leaders and giving them some respect and consideration as humans.

How about Duchairn ordering the arrest of Inquisitors and moving against Clyntahn?

Hi Dwileye13,

Getting back to the original intent of your thread here , the IHA or tMHoGatA, not the AoG, is indeed all that's between Zion, the temple, the vicarate, and the increasingly powerful alliance.

If all the promised rifles are on their delivery schedule, they should be there or near by, but it still leaves around half the infantry without rifles, and we don't know if the IHA will be subdivided into quarters or eighth's etc, which after RFC's exposition on the subject in LaMA, might have finally occurred to somebody in the chain of command.

I've made my suggestions of what could happen on the Daivyn, and to 'army groups north and south' as well this spring and summer, so things could be very morose in Zion this next winter.

Clyntahn may be too furious to think straight and orders Major Phandys to let an assassin kill Duchairn, at which point things get very interesting.

Perhaps some of Lynkyn Fultyn's grenade catapults are sidetracked and used against the remaining inquisitors, being far easier to use than field artillery, NTM easier to hide.

If HFQ, is the next to the last in this story arc, things will get close to the climax, but the last book will have to cap it all, then set up the next 20 years, so there's plenty of excitement to come.

L

dwileye13 wrote:The Military situation in The Border States, Dohlar and Desnair is more tenuous than it appears, The TextEv is that the arsenals of those states have been depleted of secondary weapons to supply the Harchong contingent. All available rifles in the Border states have been given to the AoG as well as arbalasts and bows. The armories of Desnair and Dohlar were stripped of those same A&B’s and some of their rifle production went to the Harchongese. Desnair lost an Army’s worth of rifles in Southmarch and Dohlar escaped with only a portion of their resources (but will meet up with Hanth before long). The Army of Sylmahn is in dire straits and is about to get hammered.

While the 1.3 Million AoG contingent in The Border States is a BIG egg, everything is dependent on them. Westmarch, Cliff Peak and the Hildermoss Mountains will be their main Battleground of HFQ. Logistics will still play an integral part of the Campaign and is not on the side of the Harchong portion of the AoG. When the Allies break that assault, which they must, the CoGA will be broken and without options, weapons or forces to apply to anything. This will be obvious to all of Safehold.

Time for a Divine appearance or an insurrection within the Church?

lyonheart wrote:Hi Dwileye13,

Getting back to the original intent of your thread here , the IHA or tMHoGatA, not the AoG, is indeed all that's between Zion, the temple, the vicarate, and the increasingly powerful alliance.

If all the promised rifles are on their delivery schedule, they should be there or near by, but it still leaves around half the infantry without rifles, and we don't know if the IHA will be subdivided into quarters or eighth's etc, which after RFC's exposition on the subject in LaMA, might have finally occurred to somebody in the chain of command.

I've made my suggestions of what could happen on the Daivyn, and to 'army groups north and south' as well this spring and summer, so things could be very morose in Zion this next winter.

Clyntahn may be too furious to think straight and orders Major Phandys to let an assassin kill Duchairn, at which point things get very interesting.

Perhaps some of Lynkyn Fultyn's grenade catapults are sidetracked and used against the remaining inquisitors, being far easier to use than field artillery, NTM easier to hide.

If HFQ, is the next to the last in this story arc, things will get close to the climax, but the last book will have to cap it all, then set up the next 20 years, so there's plenty of excitement to come.

L

With the HFQ snipets, I have not looked at this thread in a while. There is indeed plenty of excitement to come.

The M96's will be fairly well dispersed to the ICA at all locations come late spring with plenty of Ammo, The Riverboats will also be spread out and making an impact. I believe the IHA/tMHoGatA will be at an 7-8 to 1 advantage but still struggling to be on par with the ICA. Logistics will be the trump card for the Alliance. Dohlar may be a retreat for the Harchongese when they get hammered by Hanth & Eastshare. Wouldn't that be lovely. A couple hundred thousand armed and hungry Harchong soldiers retreating/fleeing into Dohlar as the ICN is pounding the capital!

Nice tyhought but I am sure RFC has something better in mind.

The Ferguson rifle clone, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferguson_rifle of the COGA can be loaded and fired prone, although it lacks the individual rate of fire of the M-96 there may be enough of them to give equality to the two armies rate of fire, and other goodies, so it might not be the pushover many are expecting, just saying.

Poker

Defeating the CoGA's armies might not be as easy as suggested, both because they are now catching up technologically, and also due to the sheer numbers (if they are extremely ruthless, they will drive waves of pikemen against entrenched ICA forces to make them expend their ammunition before the rifle armed troops advance. Think of Soviet "Penal Battalions" or how the Iranians drove waves of Basji against the Iraqis during the Iran -Iraq war).

The final result might be similar to the end of the third day at Gettysburg. The Confederates were defeated and driven from the Union position, but Mead simply could not set off to chase down Robert E Lee. His forces had to be reorganized (Sickles' destruction of 3 Corps and the mad scramble to send troops to fill the huge gap in the line was a huge impediment to command and control), as well as fed and replenished. The fact they and been doing hard marching in extreme heat and endured three days of violent combat also rendered the Union Army relatively combat ineffective.

So the huge CoGA force might be retreating after a series of battles, and ICA scout sniper teams might be hurrying them along and hitting logistics nodes along the way, but the bulk of the ICA forces will be spent and need a period of rest and reorganization before moving against the CoGA "homelands".

As for trying to eliminate the Grand Inquisator, remember that dictators often retain a personal magnetism that keeps followers in play right until the end. Watch the movie "Downfall" (Der Untergang) to see the most famous example ("Hitler, the last ten days" is also a great movie). Most other dictators also have this effect on people as well. The counter is when the collapse finally comes, it is often sudden and brutal.

Hi Pokermind,

While I'm also a fan of the Ferguson rifle, unless the MHoGatA is practicing marksmanship a lot along with adapted tactics, the ICA is still years ahead in all sorts of things, especially given it's advantages in artillery and mortars, in numbers, range NTM power assuming the new explosive fillers are in use by fall.

I wouldn't be too surprised if most MHoGatA rifles wind up arming more of the RSA by the end of the year, with the Border States practically naked before the allies, Dohlar compelled to surrender or face [further] dismemberment, Desnar ignored after taking North Watch north of Jahras Bay, Silkiah having joined the allies; making it only a matter of time before Zion and the temple are occupied next spring, a year from now, though BGV already has the winter equipment to survive if he invades Zion this summer or fall.

L

pokermind wrote:The Ferguson rifle clone, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferguson_rifle of the COGA can be loaded and fired prone, although it lacks the individual rate of fire of the M-96 there may be enough of them to give equality to the two armies rate of fire, and other goodies, so it might not be the pushover many are expecting, just saying.

Poker

Re Duchairn and Magwair, there seemed to be something under the surface going on in their discussion of withdrawing the pikemen from the Sylman Gap for re-arming. There was a definite conspiratorial air about it and it wasn't just that Clyntahn never likes withdrawals. However, looking at the maps the projected re-supply area still seemed to be too far south to affect Zion.

Obviously a putsch in the Inquisition wouldn't just get Clyntahn. The idea would be to roll over Raynho as soon after as possible and arrest as many of Clyntahn's high level sympathisers in the Inquisition in Zion as possible, having 'discovered' their corruption or sexual perversions or high crimes and misdemeanors or whatever. The council of vicars is afraid of Clyntahn, once he Raynho, and several others have died resisting arrest, are they still going to be afraid of whoever is left?