Caslet.....

n7axw wrote:

Direwolf18 wrote:The Nazi hunters who are operating today are not looking for the general German Army soldier, they are looking for the people directly involved with the death camps. Maybe we have totally different moral compasses or whatever but I'm personally not in the school of forgive and forget on that kinda thing.

There is a good reason that Haven has spent so much effort tracking down SS refugees and turning them into fertilizer.

I'm with you on the Nazi hunting. But there is problem with it. By now you are reduced to hunting 90 year olds who are probably drooling. Within a decade or less, you will be hunting corpses. There comes a time for even this to end.

Don

And then you have to find witnesses, who still remember what happened.

The guerrilla war was by the Ku Klux Klan & similar
groups, against the freedmen.

PHLM

kzt wrote:Yeah, remember how the US government spent decades hunting down all the confederate soldiers, igniting a guerrilla war that killed hundreds of thousands. Oh, wait.....

If you want the war to be over, you have to eventually decide the damn war is over.

Weird Harold wrote:

hanuman wrote:...then there's a definite case that they too committed treason against Haven.

"Treason never prospers. For if it prospers, none dare call it treason." -- Ben Franklin(?)

I was thinking, instead of a pardon, can't the charge just be reduced to ... AWOL, or stealing a Superdreadnaught in the case of Yu, or something else? They should be heralded as heroes of the Old Haven and dissenters, dissidents, non supporters of St. Just & Co.

Shooting St. Just gets you accolades. (Theisman)
Abandoning him gets you convicted of treason. Well, except for the little matter of the Superdreads.

cthia wrote:I was thinking, instead of a pardon, can't the charge just be reduced to ... AWOL, or stealing a Superdreadnaught in the case of Yu, or something else? They should be heralded as heroes of the Old Haven and dissenters, dissidents, non supporters of St. Just & Co.

Shooting St. Just gets you accolades. (Theisman)
Abandoning him gets you convicted of treason. Well, except for the little matter of the Superdreads.

Yu didn't steal anything, which reminds me of an interesting point - at the time he requested asylum with the SKM/PG, he was technically an uniformed officer of the Masadan Navy, not the People's Navy, and the PRH probably denied all involvement strenuously, which included denying Yu's history. In effect, as long as he didn't return, he wasn't a citizen. And in the final analysis, he actually saved as many Havenite lives as he could, whilst following his orders, when the Masadans hijacked "their" own battlecruiser purchased from the PRH. His parting with Haven also happened before the Pierre/Saint-Just era.

cthia wrote:I was thinking, instead of a pardon, can't the charge just be reduced to ...

That's why I suggested an "Amnesty for acts of conscience" rather than a Pardon. Contrary to popular usage, the two terms are not synonyms.

Weird Harold wrote:

cthia wrote:I was thinking, instead of a pardon, can't the charge just be reduced to ...

That's why I suggested an "Amnesty for acts of conscience" rather than a Pardon. Contrary to popular usage, the two terms are not synonyms.

Yes Harold. Your idea is the same. Forgive me that I missed it. Actually, what put me onto this line of thinking was while watching the ending of "Star Trek: The Voyage Home." All of the charges against Kirk and crew were dismissed except the one of stealing the USS Enterprise which was directed solely at Admiral Kirk. As a result he was reduced in rank to Captain, and as a consequence of his actions he was given command of a starship, to which he has shown unswerving ability to command. Likewise, Caslet and Co. could be given a lesser charge along with a reduction in rank to Captain, and a white beret.

cthia wrote:
That's why I suggested an "Amnesty for acts of conscience" rather than a Pardon. Contrary to popular usage, the two terms are not synonyms.

Yes Harold. Your idea is the same. Forgive me that I missed it. Actually, what put me onto this line of thinking was while watching the ending of "Star Trek: The Voyage Home." All of the charges against Kirk and crew were dismissed except the one of stealing the USS Enterprise which was directed solely at Admiral Kirk. As a result he was reduced in rank to Captain, and as a consequence of his actions he was given command of a starship, to which he has shown unswerving ability to command. Likewise, Caslet and Co. could be given a lesser charge along with a reduction in rank to Captain, and a white beret. [/quote]


They did that in Star Trek because almost everyone knew that Kirk was miserable as an admiral and the Klingons were furious so they could try to calm the Klingons while giving Kirk what he anted most.

As far as I know there is no evidence that Caslet is miserable as an Admiral, or wishes to be a Captain again. Also Haven isn't nearly as furious about Caslet as the Klingons were about Kirk seizing one of their ships, and the whole Genesis debacle.

Roguevictory wrote:Yes Harold. Your idea is the same.

No it isn't, although "Amnesty" is a sub-class of "Pardon" they are distinct concepts.

Wikipedia wrote:Amnesty ... is defined as: "A pardon extended by the government to a group or class of persons, usually for a political offense; the act of a sovereign power officially forgiving certain classes of persons who are subject to trial but have not yet been convicted." It includes more than pardon, in as much as it obliterates all legal remembrance of the offense. Amnesty is more and more used to express "freedom" and the time when prisoners can go free.

Wikipedia wrote:A pardon is the forgiveness of a crime and the cancellation of the relevant penalty; it is usually granted by a head of state (such as a monarch or president) or by acts of a parliament or a religious authority.

In essence, a Pardon is post-trial and conviction, an Amnesty is forgiveness before arrest and trial. Pardons are generally applied to specific crimes and sentences while amnesties are generally applied to a range of political crimes -- draft dodging, draft card burning, aiding and abetting draft dodgers, etc, for example.

I think you are picking nits, Weird Harold. Cthia was just using the wrong word; he clearly was thinking of the concept of amnesty, because Caslet and Yu have not been arrested and convicted, therefore are not eligible for pardon. It is amnesty that he really meant, he just didn't use the right vocabulary.

Haven may do as it pleases...

Caslet is still a flag officer in a Tier 1 navy of another star nation, and participated in operation "Let's insure Honor Harrington is not hung by the neck until dead, dead, dead."

What may happen is some sort of "Truth Commission" which has investigatory power, but not punishment power, to clear up the record.

That closes things off nicely, without that whole "Harrington is going to personally kill you... provided the Protector's Own ground troops fail to tie you to a .5kt pocket nuke and solve all of your problems in a flash of radiation..." Problem that may occur is one of her friends is facing time/execution for doing the right thing.