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Caslet.....

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Re: Caslet.....
Post by drothgery   » Tue Aug 05, 2014 11:10 am

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Weird Harold wrote:Haven could have taken advantage of the Yawata Strike to defeat Manticore outright, neither did so.
What? There was no time after the Battle of Manticore that Haven could have defeated Manticore outright. They had Apollo and Haven did not. Manticore lost a lot of construction in progress and its long term missile supply in the Yawata Strike, but the 200+ Apollo-equipped Invictuses of the Python lump were complete and fully armed before said strike, and way more than sufficient to defeat the entire RHN.
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Re: Caslet.....
Post by SWM   » Tue Aug 05, 2014 1:30 pm

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Weird Harold wrote:
stewart wrote:The winners in a conflict are heros and statesmen.

The losers are subject to trial or judgement.


But what do you do when the fight is a draw?

Caslet, Yu, Parnell, and other defectors, are in Limbo with Haven because although Manticore could have defeated them outright, or Haven could have taken advantage of the Yawata Strike to defeat Manticore outright, neither did so. Caslet and Yu are now allies, but they have raised arms against their homeland.

Pres Pritchard should probably proclaim a blanket amnesty for all former Havenites declaring that Haven will not prosecute them for "acts of conscience."

They are not in limbo. They are citizens of other star nations now. That's not limbo.
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Re: Caslet.....
Post by Weird Harold   » Tue Aug 05, 2014 9:05 pm

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munroburton wrote:That's the issue with blanket amnesties - it covers the bad guys as well as the good ones.


That's why I specified "acts of conscience." Murder, torture, and other crimes against humanity aren't covered by "act of conscience."
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Re: Caslet.....
Post by n7axw   » Tue Aug 05, 2014 10:29 pm

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drothgery wrote:
Weird Harold wrote:Haven could have taken advantage of the Yawata Strike to defeat Manticore outright, neither did so.
What? There was no time after the Battle of Manticore that Haven could have defeated Manticore outright. They had Apollo and Haven did not. Manticore lost a lot of construction in progress and its long term missile supply in the Yawata Strike, but the 200+ Apollo-equipped Invictuses of the Python lump were complete and fully armed before said strike, and way more than sufficient to defeat the entire RHN.


This is true. But there was a problem. Had they been forced to confront Haven, they could have ended up short on what they needed to deal with the League, or vice-versa.

Don
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: Caslet.....
Post by Jonathan_S   » Tue Aug 05, 2014 10:38 pm

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n7axw wrote:
drothgery wrote:What? There was no time after the Battle of Manticore that Haven could have defeated Manticore outright. They had Apollo and Haven did not. Manticore lost a lot of construction in progress and its long term missile supply in the Yawata Strike, but the 200+ Apollo-equipped Invictuses of the Python lump were complete and fully armed before said strike, and way more than sufficient to defeat the entire RHN.


This is true. But there was a problem. Had they been forced to confront Haven, they could have ended up short on what they needed to deal with the League, or vice-versa.

Don
Maybe. But when the Manties were worried about that it was before they'd realized just how pitiful the SLN defenses really were. How few missiles it would take to swat down BattleFleet.

There's a decent chance that they could have managed to fend off the League's ready forces while taking the battle to Haven. All without running out of missiles.


It wouldn't be fun, but the original concern may have been overly pessimistic.
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Re: Honorverse series, the future..?
Post by kzt   » Wed Aug 06, 2014 1:05 am

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munroburton wrote:That's crazy. Many former Havenites are ex-SS types or supporters of previous regimes.

That's the issue with blanket amnesties - it covers the bad guys as well as the good ones.

Yeah, remember how the US government spent decades hunting down all the confederate soldiers, igniting a guerrilla war that killed hundreds of thousands. Oh, wait.....

If you want the war to be over, you have to eventually decide the damn war is over.
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Re: Honorverse series, the future..?
Post by munroburton   » Wed Aug 06, 2014 4:45 am

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kzt wrote:
munroburton wrote:That's crazy. Many former Havenites are ex-SS types or supporters of previous regimes.

That's the issue with blanket amnesties - it covers the bad guys as well as the good ones.

Yeah, remember how the US government spent decades hunting down all the confederate soldiers, igniting a guerrilla war that killed hundreds of thousands. Oh, wait.....

If you want the war to be over, you have to eventually decide the damn war is over.


So why are Nazi hunters still operating today?
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Re: Caslet.....
Post by Weird Harold   » Wed Aug 06, 2014 4:49 am

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munroburton wrote:
kzt wrote:If you want the war to be over, you have to eventually decide the damn war is over.


So why are Nazi hunters still operating today?


'Cause they're fanatics who don't want the damn war to be over? :roll:
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Re: Caslet.....
Post by Direwolf18   » Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:16 am

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The Nazi hunters who are operating today are not looking for the general German Army soldier, they are looking for the people directly involved with the death camps. Maybe we have totally different moral compasses or whatever but I'm personally not in the school of forgive and forget on that kinda thing.

There is a good reason that Haven has spent so much effort tracking down SS refugees and turning them into fertilizer.
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Re: Caslet.....
Post by n7axw   » Wed Aug 06, 2014 10:33 am

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Direwolf18 wrote:The Nazi hunters who are operating today are not looking for the general German Army soldier, they are looking for the people directly involved with the death camps. Maybe we have totally different moral compasses or whatever but I'm personally not in the school of forgive and forget on that kinda thing.

There is a good reason that Haven has spent so much effort tracking down SS refugees and turning them into fertilizer.


I'm with you on the Nazi hunting. But there is problem with it. By now you are reduced to hunting 90 year olds who are probably drooling. Within a decade or less, you will be hunting corpses. There comes a time for even this to end.

Don
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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