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New propulsion system

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New propulsion system
Post by jthoma8318   » Tue Aug 05, 2014 6:41 pm

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OK I'm thinking some of the guys and gals here that are more plugged into NASA stuff than the rest had maybe heard of this, but I thought it was really cool A propulsion system that doesn't use fuel (unless it were be to generate electricity). Ahead 1/4 Impulse, Mr. Sulu.

http://mashable.com/2014/08/04/microwave-space-engine/
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Re: New propulsion system
Post by namelessfly   » Tue Aug 05, 2014 7:19 pm

namelessfly

jthoma8318 wrote:OK I'm thinking some of the guys and gals here that are more plugged into NASA stuff than the rest had maybe heard of this, but I thought it was really cool A propulsion system that doesn't use fuel (unless it were be to generate electricity). Ahead 1/4 Impulse, Mr. Sulu.

http://mashable.com/2014/08/04/microwave-space-engine/



My first instinct is to assume that this is merely a light pressure drive operating at microwave frequencies. If this drive requires on the order of 3eex8 Watts per Newton of thrust, then it confers no advantage.
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Re: New propulsion system
Post by HB of CJ   » Tue Aug 05, 2014 8:39 pm

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I suppose the next series of experiments might determine, one way or the other, if there is any advantage to using high frequency microwaves vs plain old fashioned white light. Energy conserved?

If they are bouncing micro waves around a chamber of some sort, could the entropy effect absorb more energy than what measure of thrust they are observing? What are they seeing?

At first I was jazzed since we might have been observing some sort of weak quantum "pressor beam" effect. But now that it has been explained to me better, probably not. HB of CJ (old coot) Cm.
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Re: New propulsion system
Post by Spacekiwi   » Tue Aug 05, 2014 8:40 pm

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My question would be, what future sitations do they believe it could be used in, how long before that becomes practical, and what will be the size of a usable engine?
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Re: New propulsion system
Post by HB of CJ   » Tue Aug 05, 2014 8:55 pm

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EXPENSE? In direct inverse proportion cube root of the public money thrown at it. Want it by next Tuesday? Gonna cost 'ya $big time$. USE? Probably to begin with not at all practically speaking as it will remain just a test bench thingie.

TIME? My guess here is that if it works as imagined and works great, then maybe 30 years before being employed first in non manned shielded deep planetary probes. Radiation comes to mind. Probably Voyager 6 maybe. Yikes! HB of CJ (old coot) Cm.
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Re: New propulsion system
Post by Michael Everett   » Wed Aug 06, 2014 12:23 am

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Efficiency issues?
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Re: New propulsion system
Post by Tenshinai   » Wed Aug 06, 2014 10:27 am

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namelessfly wrote:

My first instinct is to assume that this is merely a light pressure drive operating at microwave frequencies. If this drive requires on the order of 3eex8 Watts per Newton of thrust, then it confers no advantage.


Wrong. Even if the energy efficiency is dreadful, it is still a way to generate kinetic energy without the requirement for reaction mass, which means you can make a constant acceleration/deceleration craft.
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Re: New propulsion system
Post by Joat42   » Wed Aug 06, 2014 10:56 am

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namelessfly wrote:My first instinct is to assume that this is merely a light pressure drive operating at microwave frequencies. If this drive requires on the order of 3eex8 Watts per Newton of thrust, then it confers no advantage.


The advantage of the engine is that it can operate continuously without the need for a propellant. Lugging around propellant cuts deeply into your ISP.

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Re: New propulsion system
Post by DDHv   » Thu Nov 20, 2014 8:47 pm

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Joat42 wrote:
namelessfly wrote:My first instinct is to assume that this is merely a light pressure drive operating at microwave frequencies. If this drive requires on the order of 3eex8 Watts per Newton of thrust, then it confers no advantage.


The advantage of the engine is that it can operate continuously without the need for a propellant. Lugging around propellant cuts deeply into your ISP.


I've often wondered about giant magnetic loops producing a "swing" reaction against the magnetic field. Increasing the magnetic field when at the outer portion of the orbital elipse, and decreasing it when at the low end of the ellipse should allow pumping the size of the orbit with the whole Earth being the reaction mass.

Tidal strings with electron capture at one end and electron expulsion at the other would work also, but might upset electronics.
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Re: New propulsion system
Post by Imaginos1892   » Thu Nov 20, 2014 10:25 pm

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Long, looooong ago I read a story that involved a "flickerwing" drive - huge magnetic fields that essentially "row" a ship through the interstellar hydrogen. The story might have been The Crystal Spheres from Analog back in the '80s. I don't see any reason it couldn't work.
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