Ten Trillion gold or silver marks?

Howdy everybody!

Is it ten trillion gold or silver marks?

From RFC's post almost a year ago, there are 20 silvers [and 5 bronze 'coppers' in a silver] in a gold mark.

I've been trying to figure out the relative value of the Mohryah Lode based on the tonnages, even trying troy ounces and it seems the ratio would indicate very small coins, even alloyed.

For example 2.5 million tons of gold means either 73 billion troy or 80 billion avoirdupois ounces, the usual intended weight of such coins before inflation; still quite enough at 2 billion per year for Cayleb or Sharleyan's lifetimes, but that's quite shy of ten trillion gold marks, the relative ratios being between 125 per avdp. oz and up to 137 per troy oz.

The 4 million tons of silver means 116.67 to 128 billion ounces, adding the gold is the equivalent of 481.67-528 billion silver ounces, for a ratio of ~20.76 per troy ounce, or about 18.94 per ounce for avdp if its ten trillion silver marks.

Granted the coins are alloyed so they're not quite that small, but I'd expect them to be still at least 50% bullion; so is there a better simpler explanation or something I've overlooked?

Addendum: It was late last night when I posted this and I meant to mention possible gold coin denominations but forgot; with the coin designs carefully preventing counterfeiters from over stamping them even though we have no textev for them [though clipping coins is mentioned], I'm curious what the ratio might be to match the required ten trillion marks, if there were denominations of 5, 10, 20, 50, and 100 etc.

Your wisdom will be appreciated.

L


I'm afraid April or May is the best we can expect for HFQ.

Hi Lyon-Heart I guess I'm more interested in what they are going to do with the money!

I could see a "bank of Charis" with massive gold reserves loaning out money globally undermining the temples financial system post round one conflict.

That is I suspect that there will be a lot of cash strapped countries desperate to rebuild and refinance after the war I could see some very low interest loans offered to Siddarmark and low (ish) loans offered to nations willing to trade with Charis.

(Thats on top of pouring the money into the Empire itself)

lyonheart wrote:Howdy everybody!

Is it ten trillion gold or silver marks?

From RFC's post almost a year ago, there are 20 silvers [and 5 bronze 'coppers' in a silver] in a gold mark.

I've been trying to figure out the relative value of the Mohryah Lode based on the tonnages, even trying troy ounces and it seems the ratio would indicate very small coins, even alloyed.

For example 2.5 million tons of gold means either 73 billion troy or 80 billion avoirdupois ounces, the usual intended weight of such coins before inflation; still quite enough at 2 billion per year for Cayleb or Sharleyan's lifetimes, but that's quite shy of ten trillion gold marks, the relative ratios being between 125 per avdp. oz and up to 137 per troy oz.

The 4 million tons of silver means 116.67 to 128 billion ounces, adding the gold is the equivalent of 481.67-528 billion silver ounces, for a ratio of ~20.76 per troy ounce, or about 18.94 per ounce for avdp if its ten trillion silver marks.

Granted the coins are alloyed so they're not quite that small, but I'd expect them to be still at least 50% bullion; so is there a better simpler explanation or something I've overlooked?

Addendum: It was late last night when I posted this and I meant to mention possible gold coin denominations but forgot; with the coin designs carefully preventing counterfeiters from over stamping them even though we have no textev for them [though clipping coins is mentioned], I'm curious what the ratio might be to match the required ten trillion marks, if there were denominations of 5, 10, 20, 50, and 100 etc.

Your wisdom will be appreciated.

L


I'm afraid April or May is the best we can expect for HFQ.

I did similar calcs based onn the Comstock when we got that info. I don't believe the coins are alloyed (except bronze) due to the proscription on diluting coinage. I would think the silver coins are .05 oz. .25 oz. & .50 oz with Gold as .25 oz, .50 oz. & 1 oz.(pick your type of oz because with gravitational differences it all breaks down into ratios. then with copper/bronzes at 1 & 5 unit denominations you only have 8 coins to work with at any time that satisfy most levels of commerce.

Several denomination of Gold and Silver bars would then get you to Merchant/Government transactions.

The truth remains that this is an incredible hoard of wealth that will finance the industrial revolution on safehold and the return to Space.

dwileye13 wrote:I did similar calcs based onn the Comstock when we got that info. I don't believe the coins are alloyed (except bronze) due to the proscription on diluting coinage.

Pure Gold is too soft for coinage, so that has to be alloyed by some formula specified in the Writ for Coin-Gold (14 karat, historically IIRC)

Pure silver is also softer than historical "coin-silver" but hard enough that coins have been minted from both. I would expect a writ-approved formula for Coin Silver to be used for all the reasons coin-silver was used historically -- except for devaluing currency.

Weird Harold wrote:

dwileye13 wrote:I did similar calcs based onn the Comstock when we got that info. I don't believe the coins are alloyed (except bronze) due to the proscription on diluting coinage.

Pure Gold is too soft for coinage, so that has to be alloyed by some formula specified in the Writ for Coin-Gold (14 karat, historically IIRC)

Pure silver is also softer than historical "coin-silver" but hard enough that coins have been minted from both. I would expect a writ-approved formula for Coin Silver to be used for all the reasons coin-silver was used historically -- except for devaluing currency.

I agree with the general statement but the 14 karat only applied in a very few places. Some nations went to 22 karat, much of Europe to 18 karat. Pretty much the same levels that were dominant in the jewelry of the place.

Currently, the US gold Eagles are 22 Kt or 91.7% gold. In the early 20th century the US $20 gold coin was closer to 23 Kt or 96% gold. Both these coins were 1 troy oz. The less pure the gold the larger the discount on the value of the gold in the coin. Purifying the gold again takes money and effort.

ksandgren wrote:I agree with the general statement but the 14 karat only applied in a very few places. Some nations went to 22 karat, much of Europe to 18 karat. Pretty much the same levels that were dominant in the jewelry of the place.

Not being a numismatist, I obviously recalled incorrectly.

SAy the republic gets a huge bank loan from charis, what could they offer as surety? ANy and all island in their holdings, low prices for raw materials.
in the future, could charis rent republic military units for conflicts else where?

Why lend the Republic money? Give them a grant instead. The Silverlode bullion represents potential production. By granting Siddermark investment capital, Charis is allowing that huge population to grow more wealthy by increasing production. That means more goods and services will get cheaper more quickly.

So hoarding that gold doesn't help anyone. Putting as much of that gold effectively in play as quickly as possible is the immediate goal. Issuing zero coupon bonds paid in gold in 10 years to the Republic would just that. The Republic uses that capital to build their economy and buy Charisian goods and services to rebuild.

SYED wrote:SAy the republic gets a huge bank loan from charis, what could they offer as surety? ANy and all island in their holdings, low prices for raw materials.
in the future, could charis rent republic military units for conflicts else where?

PeterZ wrote:Why lend the Republic money? Give them a grant instead. The Silverlode bullion represents potential production. By granting Siddermark investment capital, Charis is allowing that huge population to grow more wealthy by increasing production. That means more goods and services will get cheaper more quickly.

So hoarding that gold doesn't help anyone. Putting as much of that gold effectively in play as quickly as possible is the immediate goal. Issuing zero coupon bonds paid in gold in 10 years to the Republic would just that. The Republic uses that capital to build their economy and buy Charisian goods and services to rebuild.

A Safeholdian version of the Marshall Plan wouldn't be amiss.