What's the chance of a Streek Drive Super Dreadnought?

Weird Harold wrote:
As noted several times, the armoring and coffer-damming of SDs make an upgrade impractical -- unless the GA version isn't twice as big as existing Hyper-generators.

IOW, there won't be any retrofits of SDs.

If needed, you can cut a sd in half and add a few meter section. This won't be cheap, but it will probably be slightly faster and a lot cheaper then building a new one from scratch.

Weird Harold wrote:
As noted several times, the armoring and coffer-damming of SDs make an upgrade impractical -- unless the GA version isn't twice as big as existing Hyper-generators.

IOW, there won't be any retrofits of SDs.

If needed, you can cut a sd in half and add a few meter section. This won't be cheap, but it will probably be slightly faster and a lot cheaper then building a new one from scratch.

Which means their SD's are not stuck in transit trying to deliver messages.

When have you seen an SD used as a messenger in the Honorverse?

An SD would be the very last choice to use as a messenger because SDs travel with a screening element of smaller ships that can reach the hyper limit faster and therefore arrive anywhere sooner than an SD. Almost any military ship can deliver a message faster than an SD and there are almost always other ships around to use as messengers.

Haha, faster maybe but can they deliver as effective a message?

Times we have seen an SD used as a messenger;

Mission of Honer, a very effective message was delivered to the Haven home system, which got the attention of the Haven government and caused it to listen very carefully to another message from a small unarmed ship.

A strong message was delivered to the Monica system by Augustus Khumalo using the ancient and slow SD Hercules.

Of course some messages would probably have been better delivered using dispatch boats. For example the messages delivered by admirals Crandall & Filareta. In both those cases a SD was the worst possible choice to send a message. In fact the phrase 'shoot the messenger' comes to mind.

Sharp Claw wrote:Haha, faster maybe but can they deliver as effective a message?

Times we have seen an SD used as a messenger;

Mission of Honer, a very effective message was delivered to the Haven home system, which got the attention of the Haven government and caused it to listen very carefully to another message from a small unarmed ship.

A strong message was delivered to the Monica system by Augustus Khumalo using the ancient and slow SD Hercules.

Of course some messages would probably have been better delivered using dispatch boats. For example the messages delivered by admirals Crandall & Filareta. In both those cases a SD was the worst possible choice to send a message. In fact the phrase 'shoot the messenger' comes to mind.

Hah. Nice

Chyort wrote:If they are limited on Streak drives, then it makes sense that they put it in the ship that is the most versatile.

The ship that is the most versatile would be the Heavy Cruiser or Battle Cruiser.

kzt wrote:

Weird Harold wrote:
As noted several times, the armoring and coffer-damming of SDs make an upgrade impractical -- unless the GA version isn't twice as big as existing Hyper-generators.

IOW, there won't be any retrofits of SDs.

If needed, you can cut a sd in half and add a few meter section. This won't be cheap, but it will probably be slightly faster and a lot cheaper then building a new one from scratch.

With an SD(P) worst case you shorten a pod bay, and install it there, then re-armor the end of the pod bay. Unless some honorverse physics prevent it from being installed anywhere and that it has to be installed in some precise position.

Weird Harold wrote:

Chyort wrote:If they are limited on Streak drives, then it makes sense that they put it in the ship that is the most versatile.

The ship that is the most versatile would be the Heavy Cruiser or Battle Cruiser.

Neither of which can use Apollo... And the smaller the ship you use, the more streak drives you need, and the more likely it is for the Sollies to get lucky and destroy them. But other than that... Great idea.

Weird Harold wrote:

Jonathan_S wrote:I agree that nobody is likely to build a new SD class solely to add Streak drive.

That is essentially the heart of my argument.

I'd actually disagree on this. You can use significantly fewer SDs to cover the same volume of space if they've got streak drive. That reduces the ongoing costs of maintaining a fleet a lot.

For example... I think without streak SDs, Manticore is eventually going to want two or three nodal heavy forces in both Silesia and the Talbot Quadrant (they don't have this now because their wall of battle is currently the Python Lump + 8th Fleet + whatever else wasn't in Manticore for Beatrice, and so they have rather fewer wallers in service right 'now' than they did in the first war, but the RMN has a lot more territory to cover 'now' than it did pre-Havenite Wars, so I can't see it being downsized much in peacetime). With streak SDs, they could probably get by with just one each.

Chyort wrote:

Weird Harold wrote:The ship that is the most versatile would be the Heavy Cruiser or Battle Cruiser.

Neither of which can use Apollo... And the smaller the ship you use, the more streak drives you need, and the more likely it is for the Sollies to get lucky and destroy them. But other than that... Great idea.

There is more to versatility that launching massive salvos of Apollo missiles.

As demonstrated at Spindle, either can control Apollo salvos even if they can't use the FTL fire-control links.

Weird Harold wrote:There is more to versatility that launching massive salvos of Apollo missiles.

As demonstrated at Spindle, either can control Apollo salvos even if they can't use the FTL fire-control links.

That is a flawed argument if ever i heard one. The sad thing is you still try to make it even while admitting it is flawed...

As you yourself say. They suffered decreased missile performance because they didn't have 2 way FTL fire control. Which means their fire was less effective and more wasteful. Which is a not so minor consideration even with the haven/beowulf alliance.

And who said anything about massive salvos. I am more concerned with hits per missile than i am with salvo size. I figure Accuracy is going to be the big problem when fighting Spider equipped ships that you have problems detecting.

And it still doesn't address the fact that smaller ships are easier to destroy if the other side gets lucky. And yes, the Sollies might not have a pot to piss in but they can still get lucky. Completely ignoring the Mesans and their spider drive of course.

Or the fact that you need a lot more streak drive equipped cruisers to match the combat power of a single SD(P)

Or... Should i go on?

Chyort wrote:And who said anything about massive salvos. I am more concerned with hits per missile than i am with salvo size. I figure Accuracy is going to be the big problem when fighting Spider equipped ships that you have problems detecting.

It matters not a bit how accurate your missiles are if you can't detect, let alone localize, the enemy ships.