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Inner Circle Assault Force- LaMA Spoiler

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Re: Inner Circle Assault Force- LaMA Spoiler
Post by dwileye13   » Thu Jul 24, 2014 11:12 am

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[quote="lyonheart"]Hi EvilAuthor,

Clyntahn only purged a tenth not half of the vicarate, but all the vicars are probably known by face to the temple guards, being part of their job description, or able to recognise their friends among the vicar's guards etc, which all appear to have now, so lots of fresh faces and a vicar no one's ever heard of before would be highly suspicious to start with.

L[quote]


Perhaps the secret is to get the surviving Wylsynn to the chamber with the Key and the Staff and call on, whatever there is to call on, to help save the Church from the Tyrants who have Hijacked it. Being the Wylsynn with the goodies and calling for help to save the Church (from itself) puts the Church of Charis in an excellent position with whatever wakes up. Moral high ground, so to speak. This effort backed up by the data available on the atrocities by the Inquisition, the not 'breaking the proscriptions' by Charis (stretching them in survival mode) and the complete corruption of the CoGA would present a true case of trying to 'save' the Church.

Risky - yes, but the squeeky wheel gets the grease. Also if the ability to destroy anything under the temple happens to be there at the same time, negotiating from a position of strength is a good thing as well
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Re: Inner Circle Assault Force- LaMA Spoiler
Post by fossten   » Sun Jul 27, 2014 9:55 pm

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Welllllll...

It's clear that the PICAs can alter their shapes, sizes, and facial structure. And they can toggle certain electronic abilities, so it's feasible that they could deactivate 'stuff' that temple defenses could detect, right?

So...

Should be a piece of cake for Merlin OR Nimue to simply assume the identity of a high ranking vicar and boldly stroll around inside the temple, observing and recording.

Hmm...why hasn't that happened yet?
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Re: Inner Circle Assault Force- LaMA Spoiler
Post by Owlish   » Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:41 am

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Welcome to the Forums, please select your favorite Virtual Beverage from the wide selection available here and join in the discussions!

Regarding your points, the PICAs can change their appearances to a limited extent (altho the performances of Merlin as Zhapyth Slaytyr did seem to stretch things a bit for me, but that's within RFC's scope, not mine), but they can only revise things like build and height to a limited extent. In my opinion, it's very questionable that the PICAs could assume a convincing image of another specific person good enough to fool someone who had met the target person, even in passing. Keeping in mind that meeting one of the Vicars (one of God's select) would be a memorable event to any Safeholder, such a subterfuge would seem very unlikely to me. Also, it's a reasonable question if the PICAs could deactivate a defense system before it set off the defensive 'bells and whistles' to alert the Temple defenses - Merlin has obviously decided not to try. But it would be a very good trick if they could pull it off!

There are a few people that have met both Merlin and one of his 'troop', but at least one of them (Madam Pahrsahn/Phonda/Rychtair, a lady of many faces herself!) has 'made' Merlin/Ahbraim, so the disguises are not foolproof (and Aivah is far from a fool).

fossten wrote:Welllllll...

It's clear that the PICAs can alter their shapes, sizes, and facial structure. And they can toggle certain electronic abilities, so it's feasible that they could deactivate 'stuff' that temple defenses could detect, right?

So...

Should be a piece of cake for Merlin OR Nimue to simply assume the identity of a high ranking vicar and boldly stroll around inside the temple, observing and recording.

Hmm...why hasn't that happened yet?
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Re: Inner Circle Assault Force- LaMA Spoiler
Post by SWM   » Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:55 am

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fossten wrote:Welllllll...

It's clear that the PICAs can alter their shapes, sizes, and facial structure. And they can toggle certain electronic abilities, so it's feasible that they could deactivate 'stuff' that temple defenses could detect, right?

So...

Should be a piece of cake for Merlin OR Nimue to simply assume the identity of a high ranking vicar and boldly stroll around inside the temple, observing and recording.

Hmm...why hasn't that happened yet?

No,Merlin could not "deactivate 'stuff' that temple defenses could detect", since that 'stuff' is things like the motors that lets him walk, the computer brain that lets him think, and so on. Merlin can't know what sensors might be watching for, so he has to assume the worst. The entire PICA body is high technology, and any of it could potentially trigger a sensor.
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Re: Inner Circle Assault Force- LaMA Spoiler
Post by DrakBibliophile   » Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:11 am

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There are limits on how much PICAs can alter their appearance.

Their heights can't be changed for one thing.

While Merlin has changed his facial structure to a degree, it may be difficult to change his facial structure to be an exact match to that of an existing person to a degree that would fool somebody knows that person well.

In addition, you got the problem of "acting" like the other person, again especially when meeting/interacting with somebody who knows that person well.

IMO there's only one person in the Temple who nobody would question if he was acting strangely and the Grand Inquisitor doesn't leave the Temple. :evil:

As for "toggling down" the electronic features, well his/her brain is "electronic" and can't be "toggled down". ;)

His/her body isn't a biological one and some of the Temple sensors likely detect the differences especially if there are areas of the Temple that only certain people are allowed in.

Mimicking the biological readings of a non-PICA (especially the ones of a specific person) may be beyond the abilities of a PICA.

I think I've answered "why hasn't that happened yet". :)

fossten wrote:Welllllll...

It's clear that the PICAs can alter their shapes, sizes, and facial structure. And they can toggle certain electronic abilities, so it's feasible that they could deactivate 'stuff' that temple defenses could detect, right?

So...

Should be a piece of cake for Merlin OR Nimue to simply assume the identity of a high ranking vicar and boldly stroll around inside the temple, observing and recording.

Hmm...why hasn't that happened yet?
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Sometimes The Dragon Wins! [Polite Dragon Smile]
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Re: Inner Circle Assault Force- LaMA Spoiler
Post by fossten   » Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:08 am

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Owlish wrote:Welcome to the Forums, please select your favorite Virtual Beverage from the wide selection available here and join in the discussions!

Regarding your points, the PICAs can change their appearances to a limited extent (altho the performances of Merlin as Zhapyth Slaytyr did seem to stretch things a bit for me, but that's within RFC's scope, not mine), but they can only revise things like build and height to a limited extent. In my opinion, it's very questionable that the PICAs could assume a convincing image of another specific person good enough to fool someone who had met the target person, even in passing. Keeping in mind that meeting one of the Vicars (one of God's select) would be a memorable event to any Safeholder, such a subterfuge would seem very unlikely to me. Also, it's a reasonable question if the PICAs could deactivate a defense system before it set off the defensive 'bells and whistles' to alert the Temple defenses - Merlin has obviously decided not to try. But it would be a very good trick if they could pull it off!

There are a few people that have met both Merlin and one of his 'troop', but at least one of them (Madam Pahrsahn/Phonda/Rychtair, a lady of many faces herself!) has 'made' Merlin/Ahbraim, so the disguises are not foolproof (and Aivah is far from a fool).


In all fairness, though, didn't Zhevons have a rather more intimate encounter with Madam Parsahn? That makes it more likely that she would recognize the difference. And she's a spy already, so her antennae are up. It doesn't surprise me that she figured it out.

On the other hand, an enrobed 'vicar' wandering around in the temple would be far less likely to be revealed. What needs to happen is to capture a high ranking priest and assume his identity.

I acknowledge the counter points made by the replies, and I appreciate them, but most of them are based on assumptions and I'm curious as to why the subject hasn't even been broached. I understand Merlin is probably too tall, but Nimue isn't, and changing from male to female or vice versa has already been demonstrated to not be a problem.

I disagree that facial features can only be changed to a 'certain extent.' Clearly the roles played by Merlin look dramatically different from each other, from Zhevons to the assassin in LAMA.

Furthermore, even if Merlin couldn't perfectly match the facial features of a captured priest, there is such a thing as makeup. Are you telling me they couldn't manufacture a really good mask in the cave?

There is no evidence that absolutely precludes the possibility of inserting a PICA into the temple EXCEPT his nature being detected, and even that isn't clear. If I were Merlin, I'd be working on a way to mask my abilities. The spy stuff is merely a difficulty, not an impossibility.

Ultimately it comes down to whether or not RFC decides to address the issue. It's his series. I'm just saying that it hasn't been definitively put to bed yet.
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Re: Inner Circle Assault Force- LaMA Spoiler
Post by Weird Harold   » Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:21 am

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fossten wrote:There is no evidence that absolutely precludes the possibility of inserting a PICA into the temple EXCEPT his nature being detected, and even that isn't clear. If I were Merlin, I'd be working on a way to mask my abilities.


Merlin feels that even getting close to the Temple is too risky. He is even initially concerned with working in Zion City as he doesn't know what the Temple's sensor range might be, and/or what sensors it might have in the city.

It is entirely possible that a PICA could infiltrate the Temple without tripping any alarms or defenses. The consequences if alarms or defenses are tripped would be catastrophic -- eg not worth the risk.
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Answers! I got lots of answers!

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Re: Inner Circle Assault Force- LaMA Spoiler
Post by fossten   » Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:30 am

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Weird Harold wrote:
fossten wrote:There is no evidence that absolutely precludes the possibility of inserting a PICA into the temple EXCEPT his nature being detected, and even that isn't clear. If I were Merlin, I'd be working on a way to mask my abilities.


Merlin feels that even getting close to the Temple is too risky. He is even initially concerned with working in Zion City as he doesn't know what the Temple's sensor range might be, and/or what sensors it might have in the city.

It is entirely possible that a PICA could infiltrate the Temple without tripping any alarms or defenses. The consequences if alarms or defenses are tripped would be catastrophic -- eg not worth the risk.

Well, as they say, one idea gives birth to another.

Why not manufacture a really good mask modeled after a captured priest and send someone else in? Merlin could make his 'invisible sword' one molecule wide and nobody would know the guy was armed.

For that matter, I'd suggest sending in several spies at once, for redundancy. You're likely to get only one shot at it anyway, because if any evidence of the incursion is left, the temple would be on its guard.

But even if that happens, imagine the apoplectic fury on Clyntahn's face. Would be worth it to see him blow a tonsil. Obviously I haven't thought it all the way through, as I'm not a professional writer, so I leave it to others more qualified to play the scenario out.
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