An Actress to play Honor Harrington

dreamrider wrote:Talented as she is, I don't think that Ms. Lawrence's personality and acting style is suited to the role, although she is within the appropriate window of physical size (just barely). She's a little on the slight side for her height, as well.

In addition, she is too expensive, too hard to schedule (basically the film would have to be done to fit her commitments, rather than the other way around), and, perhaps worst, would be near impossible to sign to another 10-12 year series filming project.

She also is gaining the reputation of being moderately hard to work with. Not like Catherine Heigl or Gwyneth Paltrow yet, but getting there.

My current front runners are Jaimie Alexander (Lady Sif) or Jennifer Carpenter (Sgt Debra Morgan). Carpenter is a hair short at 5'8.5", and she is getting a little old for the role, but she's certainly got the aggressive dominance. Alexander is comfortably in the zone on all counts.

But you are probably correct that the lead will be a (near) unknown. Certainly someone early enough in their career that it makes sense for them to commit for a series contract on a largely unproven (by film industry standards) property.

dreamrider

dreamrider

Yeah, the whole Jennifer Lawrence thing is part of my fantasy vision for the movie, i.e. a big-studio big-budget production like the Trek reboots or the Marvel superhero movies.

But it's not, so that's why most of the primary cast will be unknowns or lesser-knowns. They're might even be room for someone on the level of Simon Pegg or Zoe Saldana (both of whom were in the 2009 Star Trek reboot). And, if only for marketability reasons, e.g. Harrison Ford in Enders Game, there could be a spot for a real name, say like Liam Neeson as White Haven?

One thing I'd have no problem with is if actors older than they're 20s are cast for many of the roles, and in fact would be the first thing I discard for Honor. Davids' 3rd-gen prolong works on the printed page, but I say it will NOT work in a movie unless it's a Saganami Island Academy story. It will be totally silly to have a supposed veteran crew be portrayed as a bunch of high schoolers. You can still have prolong, but people will just be a bit older than as described in the books.

As for complaints about someone in their 30s or 40s playing Honor, well, right now there is no guarantee that there will be more Honorverse movies after this one, so you might as well get the best one that can be made. If that requires a 40-year old actress for Honor, than so be it.

Dreamrider, we have been over this before: casting a white actress should be the very last resort and is to be avoided at all costs.

And yes, I am going to continue to raise a stink about it every time someone wants a white actress for Honor, because it's something that needs to have a stink raised about it.

I'll grant that physicality is more important than height, but don't use height to dismiss someone who can carry off the physicality. Kate Mulgrew is only 5'5", but she never had a problem dominating whatever room she was in. Neither did Nana Visitor, who's another 5'7" actress.

Prolong is, I think, what's most flexible - I could easily see someone in their 30s or 40s carrying the role of Honor without a problem - the only issue would be if it does get picked up as a film series. But I think staying perfectly true to the books in that respect would be a mistake - someone who looks like a teenager is simply not going to be believable as a starship commander onscreen.

roseandheather wrote:Prolong is, I think, what's most flexible - I could easily see someone in their 30s or 40s carrying the role of Honor without a problem - the only issue would be if it does get picked up as a film series. But I think staying perfectly true to the books in that respect would be a mistake - someone who looks like a teenager is simply not going to be believable as a starship commander onscreen.

'Zackly. Prolong is a wonderful plot device in the books. It's an almost completely unworkable plot device in film. Certainly 3rd-gen Prolong...

As you say, command-level officers who look barely past puberty presents huge suspension of disbelief issues in the film medium. In a novel, with enough exposition (or, this being RFC, way beyond enough! ), that believability problem doesn't really arise. In a film, you don't have the luxury of lengthy explanations of anything beyond truly story-critical elements...not if you don't want people walking out in the first twenty minutes. That means there's no way to offset the massively immersion killing effect of a starship captain that looks fresh out of Middle School.

If Prolong makes it into the films at all, I expect a very scaled-down version...1st gen stuff, basically.

On a side note ,it's nice to see activity in this sub-forum that's not about the game. I almost stopped checking in here, since I don't play the game, and the vast majority of threads are game-related. We need separate subforums for movie and game subjects!

Festival wrote:On a side note ,it's nice to see activity in this sub-forum that's not about the game. I almost stopped checking in here, since I don't play the game, and the vast majority of threads are game-related. We need separate subforums for movie and game subjects!

Well, there's been discussions on the comics as well, but currently, the game is the only thing going that can generate continuous discussion. There might be a peak once in a while with each new comic issue, and I suspect there will be more discussion once the current arc ends and the next starts. There will be, I think, a new artist, and we should be seeing changes in Nimitz especially, as that has been more or less promised.

Also, once the film starts getting into production, I'm sure we'll see much more here than just game talk.

BTW, I don't play the game either.

dreamrider wrote:
After comparing various actresses with this in view over 15+ years now, my personal fixed opinion is that to achieve that second quality in the visuals, combined with a commanding on-stage presence, they need someone ~5'9" or taller. And THAT is pretty uncommon. But not as downright RARE as 6'+.

5'9" = 1.75m aka 7cm less than Honor in height. Can't go much taller without getting too tall.

Festival wrote:

roseandheather wrote:Prolong is, I think, what's most flexible - I could easily see someone in their 30s or 40s carrying the role of Honor without a problem - the only issue would be if it does get picked up as a film series. But I think staying perfectly true to the books in that respect would be a mistake - someone who looks like a teenager is simply not going to be believable as a starship commander onscreen.

'Zackly. Prolong is a wonderful plot device in the books. It's an almost completely unworkable plot device in film. Certainly 3rd-gen Prolong...

As you say, command-level officers who look barely past puberty presents huge suspension of disbelief issues in the film medium. In a novel, with enough exposition (or, this being RFC, way beyond enough! ), that believability problem doesn't really arise. In a film, you don't have the luxury of lengthy explanations of anything beyond truly story-critical elements...not if you don't want people walking out in the first twenty minutes. That means there's no way to offset the massively immersion killing effect of a starship captain that looks fresh out of Middle School.

If Prolong makes it into the films at all, I expect a very scaled-down version...1st gen stuff, basically.

On a side note ,it's nice to see activity in this sub-forum that's not about the game. I almost stopped checking in here, since I don't play the game, and the vast majority of threads are game-related. We need separate subforums for movie and game subjects!

With prolong, it'd be best to simplify it to a "one size fits all" thing rather than have all the multiple-generation complexity. Just have it greatly extend lifespans and slow down the aging process, rather than "freeze" someone at a particular age-appearance forever.

So to the people who'd like Moon Bloodgod to be Honor, if she tests the best, then I say why not?

Oh, I haven't played the game either. I've DL'ed it, but it's apparent that it's not what I'm looking for, which is something more like a video game version of SITS. Hey Evergreen, why not team up with Ad Astra and do THAT?

roseandheather wrote:Dreamrider, we have been over this before: casting a white actress should be the very last resort and is to be avoided at all costs.

And yes, I am going to continue to raise a stink about it every time someone wants a white actress for Honor, because it's something that needs to have a stink raised about it.

I'll grant that physicality is more important than height, but don't use height to dismiss someone who can carry off the physicality. Kate Mulgrew is only 5'5", but she never had a problem dominating whatever room she was in. Neither did Nana Visitor, who's another 5'7" actress.

Prolong is, I think, what's most flexible - I could easily see someone in their 30s or 40s carrying the role of Honor without a problem - the only issue would be if it does get picked up as a film series. But I think staying perfectly true to the books in that respect would be a mistake - someone who looks like a teenager is simply not going to be believable as a starship commander onscreen.

Well, Since David recently made a few comments in these forums about the general visibility of race in a 2000 year old mixing bowl (it generally isn't, with the exception of occasional sports like the Wintons), I won't belabor that point. We can agree to disagree.

In regards to your two examples, whom I respect highly and enjoy there work (Yes, even to include Mrs Columbo), neither one of them was ever cast to play a role whose template was an over 6' champion athlete, who was a high met genie from a planet with 1.35G constant gravity, who is generally presented in her source material as being as big or bigger than the non-genie males around her.

If you want some idea of how Evergreen is thinking of the template for the role, take a look at the comic covers (and the insides, too).

In regards to age, I agree that you would probably have a much wider field of appropriately proven an talented actresses for the role if the casting director were to look at actresses up to the age of 45 or so. For the first movie. However, Evergreen is, by the statements of both Mike Devlin and his creative director, very much interested in making a series of visual media productions, and they believe strongly that they CAN create the market for that.

Since changing the person, and hence the style, of the lead performer just after getting the ball rolling is an excellent way to poison that possibility, they MUST cast with an eye toward signing multi-production, long term contracts now, in the same way that the producers of the Hunger Games had to make sure that they had the services of THEIR leading actress long before they knew the movie would be big success.

For planning for a possible 10 year shooting cycle, for a backdrop that will span 15 years or so even if they never get as far as AAC, and regardless of how they choose to treat prolong, in my opinion they do not dare cast a 40+ year old actress for the opening shot. I firmly believe that given all those constraints, they need to be looking at women with a top limit age of ~35, probably =< 32, and under 30 if they can find the right talent and form in that bracket.

...And I say that even though every time I close my eyes and wish upon (and for) a star, it is Charlize Theron (39) that I am seeing.


Trick question time: Is Keanu Reeves "too white" to play, for instance, Uncle Jacques? Or Hertzog von Rabenstrange? Don't answer too quick until you look up his heritage.

dreamrider

dreamrider wrote:--SNIP--
Trick question time: Is Keanu Reeves "too white" to play, for instance, Uncle Jacques? Or Hertzog von Rabenstrange? Don't answer too quick until you look up his heritage.

dreamrider

Keanu Reeves? Sure, he knows Kung Fu, but as the joke goes, he only has two expressions. Blank and blanker.

Although to be fair, it did work for the Matrix film.

I think that Evergreen should get all the members of BuNine to play cameo roles. After all, when the book Hogfather was turned into a film, they got the author (Terry Pratchett) to play the toymaker.

Michael Everett wrote:Keanu Reeves? Sure, he knows Kung Fu, but as the joke goes, he only has two expressions. Blank and blanker.

Whoa.



See what I did there?

dreamrider wrote:

roseandheather wrote:Dreamrider, we have been over this before: casting a white actress should be the very last resort and is to be avoided at all costs.

And yes, I am going to continue to raise a stink about it every time someone wants a white actress for Honor, because it's something that needs to have a stink raised about it.

I'll grant that physicality is more important than height, but don't use height to dismiss someone who can carry off the physicality. Kate Mulgrew is only 5'5", but she never had a problem dominating whatever room she was in. Neither did Nana Visitor, who's another 5'7" actress.

Prolong is, I think, what's most flexible - I could easily see someone in their 30s or 40s carrying the role of Honor without a problem - the only issue would be if it does get picked up as a film series. But I think staying perfectly true to the books in that respect would be a mistake - someone who looks like a teenager is simply not going to be believable as a starship commander onscreen.

Well, Since David recently made a few comments in these forums about the general visibility of race in a 2000 year old mixing bowl (it generally isn't, with the exception of occasional sports like the Wintons), I won't belabor that point. We can agree to disagree.

In regards to your two examples, whom I respect highly and enjoy there work (Yes, even to include Mrs Columbo), neither one of them was ever cast to play a role whose template was an over 6' champion athlete, who was a high met genie from a planet with 1.35G constant gravity, who is generally presented in her source material as being as big or bigger than the non-genie males around her.

If you want some idea of how Evergreen is thinking of the template for the role, take a look at the comic covers (and the insides, too).

In regards to age, I agree that you would probably have a much wider field of appropriately proven an talented actresses for the role if the casting director were to look at actresses up to the age of 45 or so. For the first movie. However, Evergreen is, by the statements of both Mike Devlin and his creative director, very much interested in making a series of visual media productions, and they believe strongly that they CAN create the market for that.

Since changing the person, and hence the style, of the lead performer just after getting the ball rolling is an excellent way to poison that possibility, they MUST cast with an eye toward signing multi-production, long term contracts now, in the same way that the producers of the Hunger Games had to make sure that they had the services of THEIR leading actress long before they knew the movie would be big success.

For planning for a possible 10 year shooting cycle, for a backdrop that will span 15 years or so even if they never get as far as AAC, and regardless of how they choose to treat prolong, in my opinion they do not dare cast a 40+ year old actress for the opening shot. I firmly believe that given all those constraints, they need to be looking at women with a top limit age of ~35, probably =< 32, and under 30 if they can find the right talent and form in that bracket.

...And I say that even though every time I close my eyes and wish upon (and for) a star, it is Charlize Theron (39) that I am seeing.


Trick question time: Is Keanu Reeves "too white" to play, for instance, Uncle Jacques? Or Hertzog von Rabenstrange? Don't answer too quick until you look up his heritage.

dreamrider

*headdesk* The issue has never been the visibility of race in the Honorverse; it has always been the visibility of race in the real world. But if you don't understand that by now, you never will.

As to the rest, there we will have to agree to disagree. I will say, though, that with RFC involved, I actually do trust Evergreen to do the casting right.

(And I'm still championing an early appearance of Augustus Khumalo - come on, Evergreen, snap up Norm Lewis before someone else does!! )