Raid on Sol System-Another Option

hanuman wrote:

doug941 wrote: That would work if you translate in or near Jovian space, if you translate near Uranus, Neptune etc you're screwed, blued and tattooed. This is why I keep mentioning multiple shells. KZT's post about shipboard sensors would give a range of roughly 2.15 billion kilometers, drones would quite a bit less.

Manticore's system periphery platforms can detect incoming hyper signatures from light-days away, if my memory serves.

It's light months, IIRC.

Vince wrote:

hanuman wrote:Manticore's system periphery platforms can detect incoming hyper signatures from light-days away, if my memory serves.

It's light months, IIRC.

Thank you for the correction.

Still, that raises a question. How many light hours/days/months across is a star system's diameter? Because I suspect that Manticore needs only a few arrays to cover the entire double system, if that many.

hanuman wrote:Thank you for the correction.

Still, that raises a question. How many light hours/days/months across is a star system's diameter? Because I suspect that Manticore needs only a few arrays to cover the entire double system, if that many.

Depends on what you consider the edge of the star system is. For the Solar system keep in mind that 1 Astronomical Unit = 8.3167464 light minutes.

hanuman wrote:

Vince wrote:It's light months, IIRC.

Thank you for the correction.

Still, that raises a question. How many light hours/days/months across is a star system's diameter? Because I suspect that Manticore needs only a few arrays to cover the entire double system, if that many.

Like Vince said, it depends on what you define as the system.

But House of Steel tells up that (at their furthest apart) the two stars are 827 light minutes apart. If their outermost planets were also as far away from each other as possible then that would bring the distance between Wyvern (Manticore-A VII) and Fenris (Manticore-B VII) up to 1242 light minutes (or almost 21 light hours). Even the Junction is only 7 light hours from Manticore-A, so even in the worst configuration you're only talking about maybe 25 light hours between every piece of real-estate you care about. But the Oort cloud could be almost a light year away from the star; but still bound (ever so tenuously) to its gravitational pull.


The arrays around Manticore-A could easily cover the interesting parts both systems (although IIRC you still need local arrays to see stuff inside the hyper limit; the giant multi-km system arrays get "blinded" by all the gravity signatures in there).

Now I wouldn't be surprised if Manticore-B had it's own system arrays anyway. For one thing it would give more timely information to Gryphon or any fleet units nearby, and for another it would provide some redundancy if anything happened to Manticore-A's arrays. (And RFC implied that the arrays weren't especially expensive for a major power when he said it wasn't worth raiding to destroy them - so if they don't cost a major fortune why not put in an extra array next door )

Jonathan_S wrote:Like Vince said, it depends on what you define as the system.

But House of Steel tells up that (at their furthest apart) the two stars are 827 light minutes apart. If their outermost planets were also as far away from each other as possible then that would bring the distance between Wyvern (Manticore-A VII) and Fenris (Manticore-B VII) up to 1242 light minutes (or almost 21 light hours). Even the Junction is only 7 light hours from Manticore-A, so even in the worst configuration you're only talking about maybe 25 light hours between every piece of real-estate you care about. But the Oort cloud could be almost a light year away from the star; but still bound (ever so tenuously) to its gravitational pull.


The arrays around Manticore-A could easily cover the interesting parts both systems (although IIRC you still need local arrays to see stuff inside the hyper limit; the giant multi-km system arrays get "blinded" by all the gravity signatures in there).

Now I wouldn't be surprised if Manticore-B had it's own system arrays anyway. For one thing it would give more timely information to Gryphon or any fleet units nearby, and for another it would provide some redundancy if anything happened to Manticore-A's arrays. (And RFC implied that the arrays weren't especially expensive for a major power when he said it wasn't worth raiding to destroy them - so if they don't cost a major fortune why not put in an extra array next door )

Thank you for the information.

Just a couple of question. Is Sol's Oort Cloud really that far away? And how 'thick' is the Oort Cloud?

Because if the same is true for the Centauri triple system, then it's only two light years distant from Sol's outer edge, right?

hanuman wrote:

Jonathan_S wrote:Like Vince said, it depends on what you define as the system.

But House of Steel tells up that (at their furthest apart) the two stars are 827 light minutes apart. If their outermost planets were also as far away from each other as possible then that would bring the distance between Wyvern (Manticore-A VII) and Fenris (Manticore-B VII) up to 1242 light minutes (or almost 21 light hours). Even the Junction is only 7 light hours from Manticore-A, so even in the worst configuration you're only talking about maybe 25 light hours between every piece of real-estate you care about. But the Oort cloud could be almost a light year away from the star; but still bound (ever so tenuously) to its gravitational pull.


The arrays around Manticore-A could easily cover the interesting parts both systems (although IIRC you still need local arrays to see stuff inside the hyper limit; the giant multi-km system arrays get "blinded" by all the gravity signatures in there).

Now I wouldn't be surprised if Manticore-B had it's own system arrays anyway. For one thing it would give more timely information to Gryphon or any fleet units nearby, and for another it would provide some redundancy if anything happened to Manticore-A's arrays. (And RFC implied that the arrays weren't especially expensive for a major power when he said it wasn't worth raiding to destroy them - so if they don't cost a major fortune why not put in an extra array next door )

Thank you for the information.

Just a couple of question. Is Sol's Oort Cloud really that far away? And how 'thick' is the Oort Cloud?

Because if the same is true for the Centauri triple system, then it's only two light years distant from Sol's outer edge, right?

If you count our system as ending at the outside of our Oort cloud, and Proxema Centauri as ending at the edge of its Oort cloud, then they are less than 1 LY appart. However....

There are at least 4 different "edges" of the soler system. Personally, I feel that the best claim lays with the heliopause, where the solor wind stops pushing out and cosmic radiation starts pushing in (yes I know its more complex than that). It is at about 120 AUs, or a bit more than 16 light hours, from the sun. Sol's Oort cloud starts at over nine and a half light months. And goes on from there.

hanuman wrote:

Jonathan_S wrote:Like Vince said, it depends on what you define as the system.

But House of Steel tells up that (at their furthest apart) the two stars are 827 light minutes apart. If their outermost planets were also as far away from each other as possible then that would bring the distance between Wyvern (Manticore-A VII) and Fenris (Manticore-B VII) up to 1242 light minutes (or almost 21 light hours). Even the Junction is only 7 light hours from Manticore-A, so even in the worst configuration you're only talking about maybe 25 light hours between every piece of real-estate you care about. But the Oort cloud could be almost a light year away from the star; but still bound (ever so tenuously) to its gravitational pull.


The arrays around Manticore-A could easily cover the interesting parts both systems (although IIRC you still need local arrays to see stuff inside the hyper limit; the giant multi-km system arrays get "blinded" by all the gravity signatures in there).

Now I wouldn't be surprised if Manticore-B had it's own system arrays anyway. For one thing it would give more timely information to Gryphon or any fleet units nearby, and for another it would provide some redundancy if anything happened to Manticore-A's arrays. (And RFC implied that the arrays weren't especially expensive for a major power when he said it wasn't worth raiding to destroy them - so if they don't cost a major fortune why not put in an extra array next door )

Thank you for the information.

Just a couple of question. Is Sol's Oort Cloud really that far away? And how 'thick' is the Oort Cloud?

Because if the same is true for the Centauri triple system, then it's only two light years distant from Sol's outer edge, right?

Here, this might help. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1juljwZvIcU

hanuman wrote:Thank you for the information.

Just a couple of question. Is Sol's Oort Cloud really that far away? And how 'thick' is the Oort Cloud?

Because if the same is true for the Centauri triple system, then it's only two light years distant from Sol's outer edge, right?

That's what wikipedia tells me.

wikipedia:Oort Cloud wrote:The Oort cloud is thought to occupy a vast space from somewhere between 2,000 and 5,000 AU (0.03 and 0.08 ly)[9] to as far as 50,000 AU (0.79 ly)[3] from the Sun. Some estimates place the outer edge at between 100,000 and 200,000 AU (1.58 and 3.16 ly).[9] The region can be subdivided into a spherical outer Oort cloud of 20,000–50,000 AU (0.32–0.79 ly), and a doughnut-shaped inner Oort cloud of 2,000–20,000 AU (0.03–0.32 ly).

The Ort Cloud is too tenuous to be differentiated from "interstellar space.

The delineation is arbitrary unless your criteria is which star has dominant gravitational influence. By this definition, the entire galactic volume resides within the Ort Cloud of various stars.

hanuman wrote:

Jonathan_S wrote:Like Vince said, it depends on what you define as the system.

But House of Steel tells up that (at their furthest apart) the two stars are 827 light minutes apart. If their outermost planets were also as far away from each other as possible then that would bring the distance between Wyvern (Manticore-A VII) and Fenris (Manticore-B VII) up to 1242 light minutes (or almost 21 light hours). Even the Junction is only 7 light hours from Manticore-A, so even in the worst configuration you're only talking about maybe 25 light hours between every piece of real-estate you care about. But the Oort cloud could be almost a light year away from the star; but still bound (ever so tenuously) to its gravitational pull.


The arrays around Manticore-A could easily cover the interesting parts both systems (although IIRC you still need local arrays to see stuff inside the hyper limit; the giant multi-km system arrays get "blinded" by all the gravity signatures in there).

Now I wouldn't be surprised if Manticore-B had it's own system arrays anyway. For one thing it would give more timely information to Gryphon or any fleet units nearby, and for another it would provide some redundancy if anything happened to Manticore-A's arrays. (And RFC implied that the arrays weren't especially expensive for a major power when he said it wasn't worth raiding to destroy them - so if they don't cost a major fortune why not put in an extra array next door )

Thank you for the information.

Just a couple of question. Is Sol's Oort Cloud really that far away? And how 'thick' is the Oort Cloud?

Because if the same is true for the Centauri triple system, then it's only two light years distant from Sol's outer edge, right?

Jonathan_S wrote:

hanuman wrote:Thank you for the information.

Just a couple of question. Is Sol's Oort Cloud really that far away? And how 'thick' is the Oort Cloud?

Because if the same is true for the Centauri triple system, then it's only two light years distant from Sol's outer edge, right?

That's what wikipedia tells me.

wikipedia:Oort Cloud wrote:The Oort cloud is thought to occupy a vast space from somewhere between 2,000 and 5,000 AU (0.03 and 0.08 ly)[9] to as far as 50,000 AU (0.79 ly)[3] from the Sun. Some estimates place the outer edge at between 100,000 and 200,000 AU (1.58 and 3.16 ly).[9] The region can be subdivided into a spherical outer Oort cloud of 20,000–50,000 AU (0.32–0.79 ly), and a doughnut-shaped inner Oort cloud of 2,000–20,000 AU (0.03–0.32 ly).

When you get that far out, you also need to factor in the galactic tides. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galactic_tide

In particular the section on the Oort cloud. That, of course, also implies that there would be an equivalent of a Roche limit.