What's the chance of a Streek Drive Super Dreadnought?

hanuman wrote:Ignore me if this point has already been made, but even though I do not always understand the technical data very well, it seems to me that a SD-sized streak-drive ship would still be a better choice as a warship than one that is smaller, if any navy will choose to build such ships.

The reason I'm saying that is that even though an SD-sized ship's streak drive will be much larger than that of a smaller ship, the drive will still be proportional to the ship's size. Surely that means that an SD-sized streak-drive ship will still have much much more space for everything else than, say, one that is the size of a battlecruiser?

If I'm correct, wouldn't that mean that an SD-sized ship would have much more magazine space for missiles than a BC-sized one, despite having a much larger drive?

What I keep wondering about the streak is what else is involved apart from the bigger hyper drive engines. They are supposed to operate in higher bands which would tear other ships apart. So what permits them to do that?

Don

hanuman wrote:Ignore me if this point has already been made, but even though I do not always understand the technical data very well, it seems to me that a SD-sized streak-drive ship would still be a better choice as a warship than one that is smaller, if any navy will choose to build such ships.

The reason I'm saying that is that even though an SD-sized ship's streak drive will be much larger than that of a smaller ship, the drive will still be proportional to the ship's size. Surely that means that an SD-sized streak-drive ship will still have much much more space for everything else than, say, one that is the size of a battlecruiser?

If I'm correct, wouldn't that mean that an SD-sized ship would have much more magazine space for missiles than a BC-sized one, despite having a much larger drive?

True though honestly I would expect them to be equipped to all new warship classes once they are equipped to some warship models. That way fleets can move together without the non-Streak equipped models slowing the Streak drive equipped ships down.

Roguevictory wrote:

hanuman wrote:Ignore me if this point has already been made, but even though I do not always understand the technical data very well, it seems to me that a SD-sized streak-drive ship would still be a better choice as a warship than one that is smaller, if any navy will choose to build such ships.

The reason I'm saying that is that even though an SD-sized ship's streak drive will be much larger than that of a smaller ship, the drive will still be proportional to the ship's size. Surely that means that an SD-sized streak-drive ship will still have much much more space for everything else than, say, one that is the size of a battlecruiser?

If I'm correct, wouldn't that mean that an SD-sized ship would have much more magazine space for missiles than a BC-sized one, despite having a much larger drive?

True though honestly I would expect them to be equipped to all new warship classes once they are equipped to some warship models. That way fleets can move together without the non-Streak equipped models slowing the Streak drive equipped ships down.

The thing that strikes me is that there isn't any real need for superdreadnought-sized streak-drive ships, despite what I wrote before. Superdreadnoughts are intended to stand and pound on each other, not engage in extended pursuits of other ships, which is where speed would come in quite handily.

Also, the only scenario I can envision where it might be advantageous for a wall of battle to really move at the higher speeds that the streak drive makes possible, is if a star nation's acquired intelligence that its enemies are planning to attack one of its more distant and less well-defended member worlds and wishes to intercept the attacking field. However, what are the chances of receiving such intel in time to do any good, given the vast distances involved (say, between Montana and Spindle), even if the ship carrying the intel IS equipped with the streak drive?

The streak drive is useless in normal space, after all, and that is where almost all combat involving ships-of-the-wall takes place, not in hyper space.

Now smaller classes might well have use for the streak drive, in order to undertake speedy hyper space pursuits of enemy ships.

Just a thought.

hanuman wrote:
The thing that strikes me is that there isn't any real need for superdreadnought-sized streak-drive ships, despite what I wrote before. Superdreadnoughts are intended to stand and pound on each other, not engage in extended pursuits of other ships, which is where speed would come in quite handily.

Also, the only scenario I can envision where it might be advantageous for a wall of battle to really move at the higher speeds that the streak drive makes possible, is if a star nation's acquired intelligence that its enemies are planning to attack one of its more distant and less well-defended member worlds and wishes to intercept the attacking field. However, what are the chances of receiving such intel in time to do any good, given the vast distances involved (say, between Montana and Spindle), even if the ship carrying the intel IS equipped with the streak drive?

The streak drive is useless in normal space, after all, and that is where almost all combat involving ships-of-the-wall takes place, not in hyper space.

Now smaller classes might well have use for the streak drive, in order to undertake speedy hyper space pursuits of enemy ships.

Just a thought.

Streak drive speed would also be useful on SDN(P)s when sending reinforcements to a system under attack and any other situation where moving faster from one system to another is helpful. and there are no convenient wormhole links leading to the destination.

Strategic speed is a wonderful thing for an attacker. You can mass, strike and reposition over much longer distances. It allows you to do more with less and it forces your opponent to make choices he won't like.

It's not as useful to the defender, who is normally running on interior lines, but it is still useful. Time spent traveling is time the ship is essentially worthless, so gaining more time they are on station is akin to having more ships.

Losing a Destroyer to a hyper drive accident is a bad thing. Losing a fleet of SD(P) is much much worse.

The reason I suggested a Mk36 armed Roland was to keep ammunition levels up while taking advantage of fast reaction transport times. If a steak drive were to cut the ammunition levels down to 1/3rd. A Mk16 armed Roland would be pretty useless if it only had 6 missiles per tube. Add in the 62 crew the risk of a hyper accident would be acceptable.

A fleet with 80,000-160,000+ crew would be too big of a risk.

hanuman wrote:The thing that strikes me is that there isn't any real need for superdreadnought-sized streak-drive ships, despite what I wrote before. Superdreadnoughts are intended to stand and pound on each other, not engage in extended pursuits of other ships, which is where speed would come in quite handily.

...

Now smaller classes might well have use for the streak drive, in order to undertake speedy hyper space pursuits of enemy ships.

I think the use of Streak Drives in warships is going to be a cost-benefit situation. I can see where a Streak Drive would be of benefit to Battle-cruisers and smaller, but the bigger the warship, the less speed in any regime is important.

If the cost of including or retrofitting streak drive is modest, then I can definitely see Navies using it every ship. If the Streak Drive is horrendously expensive and generates extra wear-and-tear or reliability problems, then the Iota band and higher could be the exclusive province of dispatch boats and destroyers -- nothing bigger than a light cruiser, anyway.

Weird Harold wrote:

hanuman wrote:The thing that strikes me is that there isn't any real need for superdreadnought-sized streak-drive ships, despite what I wrote before. Superdreadnoughts are intended to stand and pound on each other, not engage in extended pursuits of other ships, which is where speed would come in quite handily.

...

Now smaller classes might well have use for the streak drive, in order to undertake speedy hyper space pursuits of enemy ships.

I think the use of Streak Drives in warships is going to be a cost-benefit situation. I can see where a Streak Drive would be of benefit to Battle-cruisers and smaller, but the bigger the warship, the less speed in any regime is important.

If the cost of including or retrofitting streak drive is modest, then I can definitely see Navies using it every ship. If the Streak Drive is horrendously expensive and generates extra wear-and-tear or reliability problems, then the Iota band and higher could be the exclusive province of dispatch boats and destroyers -- nothing bigger than a light cruiser, anyway.

Not useful in superdreadnoughts? I wonder how effective Eighth Fleet would have been if it could take advantage of a ~7250x multiplier, instead of ~3500x. That suggests to me they'd be able to cut the actual time spent travelling back and forth between Trevor's Star and targets in the RoH by around half - jumping up from ~2100c to 4350c and that's sticking with .6c.

Even if those higher bands do generate extra wear-tear, they don't necessarily have to use them every time they go into hyper.

munroburton wrote:Even if those higher bands do generate extra wear-tear, they don't necessarily have to use them every time they go into hyper.

The question isn't whether a Streak Drive might be useful, but whether it will be useful enough to be worth the extra expense.

Eighth Fleet and operations Cutworm and Sanskrit, might have been less risky because Eighth Fleet could be back home to reinforce Home Fleet, but the necessity of allowing time for News to reach Haven would have dictated the pace of operations far more than the ability to "get there and back" faster.

True, Ships with Streak Drive don't need to go higher than ships without Streak Drives, but if they don't what benefit does the extra cost gain them. If the drive is installed "for emergency use only" and only used once or twice in a ship's service life, how much are those infrequent uses worth?

If the drive is installed, it is going to be used; there is simply no point in having it if it isn't used. The advantages for couriers and scouts are fairly obvious and probably outweigh any additional wear-and-tear and construction costs. I'm not sure that those advantages scale up beyond light cruisers or heavy cruisers; maybe even up to battle-cruisers, but the bigger the ship, the less "need for speed" is important.

hanuman wrote:Ignore me if this point has already been made, but even though I do not always understand the technical data very well, it seems to me that a SD-sized streak-drive ship would still be a better choice as a warship than one that is smaller, if any navy will choose to build such ships.

The reason I'm saying that is that even though an SD-sized ship's streak drive will be much larger than that of a smaller ship, the drive will still be proportional to the ship's size. Surely that means that an SD-sized streak-drive ship will still have much much more space for everything else than, say, one that is the size of a battlecruiser?

If I'm correct, wouldn't that mean that an SD-sized ship would have much more magazine space for missiles than a BC-sized one, despite having a much larger drive?

Roguevictory wrote:True though honestly I would expect them to be equipped to all new warship classes once they are equipped to some warship models. That way fleets can move together without the non-Streak equipped models slowing the Streak drive equipped ships down.

hanuman wrote:The thing that strikes me is that there isn't any real need for superdreadnought-sized streak-drive ships, despite what I wrote before. Superdreadnoughts are intended to stand and pound on each other, not engage in extended pursuits of other ships, which is where speed would come in quite handily.

Also, the only scenario I can envision where it might be advantageous for a wall of battle to really move at the higher speeds that the streak drive makes possible, is if a star nation's acquired intelligence that its enemies are planning to attack one of its more distant and less well-defended member worlds and wishes to intercept the attacking field. However, what are the chances of receiving such intel in time to do any good, given the vast distances involved (say, between Montana and Spindle), even if the ship carrying the intel IS equipped with the streak drive?

The streak drive is useless in normal space, after all, and that is where almost all combat involving ships-of-the-wall takes place, not in hyper space.

Now smaller classes might well have use for the streak drive, in order to undertake speedy hyper space pursuits of enemy ships.

Just a thought.

A streak drive is completely useless in pursuit, since all it allows you to do is go up a couple more hyper bands. It doesn't allow you to go faster in any band, and if your quarry is in one band, going up a band means you'll lose it since you can't see it any more.

What would be helpful for pursuit is a better particle screen, since that's what limits the speed in hyper. Or a way of seeing farther through the interference in hyper.

Rogue Victory's point is well taken - a convoy moves at the speed of its slowest member, so equipping smaller combatants with the Streak Drive and ignoring larger combatants and the fleet train doesn't seem all that useful for major fleet movements.