What's the chance of a Streek Drive Super Dreadnought?

BobfromSydney wrote:
Even if you take a mass penalty that means you need to chuck out some grasers or 5% of missile storage etc. it would still be worth it. You can delete the 'just in case' grav lance they fit on Manticoran SDs and put that space to good use.

Of those options I would cut the grav lances first, than grasers if there are no grav lances. With the current tactics in use I think the grasers are more expendable than the missile storage as long as the number of grasers cut doesn't get too large (Say more than 4 to 6)

BobfromSydney wrote:More like Streak Drive 2.0 then

The strategic benefit of faster movement is a huge force multiplier. It would be crazy not to incorporate streak drive into larger ships so long as it's reasonably safe.

Defensively you have faster response times.

Offensively you spend less time travelling and have a quicker response rate to opportunities.

Operationally you can cycle units back to home base for maintenance cycles quicker. You can transfer units quicker.

Even if you take a mass penalty that means you need to chuck out some grasers or 5% of missile storage etc. it would still be worth it. You can delete the 'just in case' grav lance they fit on Manticoran SDs and put that space to good use.

Could you please RTFM? The Andural class was the only SD with a grav lance. The 14 hulls built were all retired by 1918.

The other point here is that the only existing example of a streak drive is approximately twice the size (volume? mass? number of hyper-gerbel wheels?) and capital ships have armor around their vital systems. Replacing a vital system with one that occupies more volume would require a pretty fundamental redesign of the core vital systems as well as cutting through super-dreadnaught class armor. Ain't gonna happen. Cheaper and possibly faster to build new SDs with all the new bells and whistles.

Now on new construction, I'd imagine that they'd leave some space for an upgrade in place --- assuming that Dr. Simoes knows the volume requirements, which isn't a given. He's specifically said to not know much about the actual hardware.

Now, on smaller ships an upgrade is more practical, but it would still require a pretty thorough redesign, and BuShips might well decide that incorporating it into new ship classes rather than doing expensive refits is the optimal way to go.

Of course, if Dr. Simoes and the rest of the team at Bolthole manages to come up with a design that fits in the same volume, then upgrading everything in sight would be a no-brainer. I'd imagine that would be a fairly high priority design objective, but not meeting it wouldn't hold up the project.

JohnRoth wrote:

BobfromSydney wrote:More like Streak Drive 2.0 then

The strategic benefit of faster movement is a huge force multiplier. It would be crazy not to incorporate streak drive into larger ships so long as it's reasonably safe.

Defensively you have faster response times.

Offensively you spend less time travelling and have a quicker response rate to opportunities.

Operationally you can cycle units back to home base for maintenance cycles quicker. You can transfer units quicker.

Even if you take a mass penalty that means you need to chuck out some grasers or 5% of missile storage etc. it would still be worth it. You can delete the 'just in case' grav lance they fit on Manticoran SDs and put that space to good use.

Could you please RTFM? The Andural class was the only SD with a grav lance. The 14 hulls built were all retired by 1918.

The other point here is that the only existing example of a streak drive is approximately twice the size (volume? mass? number of hyper-gerbel wheels?) and capital ships have armor around their vital systems. Replacing a vital system with one that occupies more volume would require a pretty fundamental redesign of the core vital systems as well as cutting through super-dreadnaught class armor. Ain't gonna happen. Cheaper and possibly faster to build new SDs with all the new bells and whistles.

Now on new construction, I'd imagine that they'd leave some space for an upgrade in place --- assuming that Dr. Simoes knows the volume requirements, which isn't a given. He's specifically said to not know much about the actual hardware.

Now, on smaller ships an upgrade is more practical, but it would still require a pretty thorough redesign, and BuShips might well decide that incorporating it into new ship classes rather than doing expensive refits is the optimal way to go.

Of course, if Dr. Simoes and the rest of the team at Bolthole manages to come up with a design that fits in the same volume, then upgrading everything in sight would be a no-brainer. I'd imagine that would be a fairly high priority design objective, but not meeting it wouldn't hold up the project.

When I said 'incorporate' I meant into new build designs. Larger hyper generators might even affect the hull shape near the impeller nodes depending on where they have to be located (fixed or floating?).

If you weren't so busy being rude you would notice I definitely didn't say RETROFIT, which would imply installing streak drive into existing construction. FYI I wrote about grav lances based on an old pearl where Weber said RMN SD's had grav lances. Forgive me for not cross checking that statement against HoS whilst making an off-hand comment.

JohnRoth wrote:Could you please RTFM? The Andural class was the only SD with a grav lance. The 14 hulls built were all retired by 1918.

Oddly the older Jayne's Shipbook disagrees with House of Steel on the grav lance issue. Jayne's also lists the (25 ship) King William-class SDs as having a grav-lance (and a broadside the includes 12 energy torps)

Given the time period it would make sense if they'd had them. Though, maybe the class evolved and the later ships picked up some of the characteristics being designed into the following Andural-class design. So HoS is correct for the lead ship and Jaynes reflected the final ships' configurations. Or maybe RFC / BuNine decided that it didn't make sense and this just "became" another error that Jayne's should have apologized for

But in any case they were also retired by 1919.

BobfromSydney wrote:More like Streak Drive 2.0 then

The strategic benefit of faster movement is a huge force multiplier. It would be crazy not to incorporate streak drive into larger ships so long as it's reasonably safe.

Defensively you have faster response times.

Offensively you spend less time travelling and have a quicker response rate to opportunities.

Operationally you can cycle units back to home base for maintenance cycles quicker. You can transfer units quicker.

Even if you take a mass penalty that means you need to chuck out some grasers or 5% of missile storage etc. it would still be worth it. You can delete the 'just in case' grav lance they fit on Manticoran SDs and put that space to good use.

JohnRoth wrote:Could you please RTFM? The Andural class was the only SD with a grav lance. The 14 hulls built were all retired by 1918.

The other point here is that the only existing example of a streak drive is approximately twice the size (volume? mass? number of hyper-gerbel wheels?) and capital ships have armor around their vital systems. Replacing a vital system with one that occupies more volume would require a pretty fundamental redesign of the core vital systems as well as cutting through super-dreadnaught class armor. Ain't gonna happen. Cheaper and possibly faster to build new SDs with all the new bells and whistles.

Now on new construction, I'd imagine that they'd leave some space for an upgrade in place --- assuming that Dr. Simoes knows the volume requirements, which isn't a given. He's specifically said to not know much about the actual hardware.

Now, on smaller ships an upgrade is more practical, but it would still require a pretty thorough redesign, and BuShips might well decide that incorporating it into new ship classes rather than doing expensive refits is the optimal way to go.

Of course, if Dr. Simoes and the rest of the team at Bolthole manages to come up with a design that fits in the same volume, then upgrading everything in sight would be a no-brainer. I'd imagine that would be a fairly high priority design objective, but not meeting it wouldn't hold up the project.

BobfromSydney wrote:When I said 'incorporate' I meant into new build designs. Larger hyper generators might even affect the hull shape near the impeller nodes depending on where they have to be located (fixed or floating?).

If you weren't so busy being rude you would notice I definitely didn't say RETROFIT, which would imply installing streak drive into existing construction. FYI I wrote about grav lances based on an old pearl where Weber said RMN SD's had grav lances. Forgive me for not cross checking that statement against HoS whilst making an off-hand comment.

From what you said I inferred "retrofit," simply because if you're designing a new class it makes no sense to talk about tradeoffs of weapons versus other features. BuShips and BuWeaps will do what it does for new designs, based on the current available tech and anticipated strategic needs.

JohnRoth wrote:

BobfromSydney wrote:More like Streak Drive 2.0 then

The strategic benefit of faster movement is a huge force multiplier. It would be crazy not to incorporate streak drive into larger ships so long as it's reasonably safe.

Defensively you have faster response times.

Offensively you spend less time travelling and have a quicker response rate to opportunities.

Operationally you can cycle units back to home base for maintenance cycles quicker. You can transfer units quicker.

Even if you take a mass penalty that means you need to chuck out some grasers or 5% of missile storage etc. it would still be worth it. You can delete the 'just in case' grav lance they fit on Manticoran SDs and put that space to good use.

JohnRoth wrote:Could you please RTFM? The Andural class was the only SD with a grav lance. The 14 hulls built were all retired by 1918.

The other point here is that the only existing example of a streak drive is approximately twice the size (volume? mass? number of hyper-gerbel wheels?) and capital ships have armor around their vital systems. Replacing a vital system with one that occupies more volume would require a pretty fundamental redesign of the core vital systems as well as cutting through super-dreadnaught class armor. Ain't gonna happen. Cheaper and possibly faster to build new SDs with all the new bells and whistles.

Now on new construction, I'd imagine that they'd leave some space for an upgrade in place --- assuming that Dr. Simoes knows the volume requirements, which isn't a given. He's specifically said to not know much about the actual hardware.

Now, on smaller ships an upgrade is more practical, but it would still require a pretty thorough redesign, and BuShips might well decide that incorporating it into new ship classes rather than doing expensive refits is the optimal way to go.

Of course, if Dr. Simoes and the rest of the team at Bolthole manages to come up with a design that fits in the same volume, then upgrading everything in sight would be a no-brainer. I'd imagine that would be a fairly high priority design objective, but not meeting it wouldn't hold up the project.

BobfromSydney wrote:When I said 'incorporate' I meant into new build designs. Larger hyper generators might even affect the hull shape near the impeller nodes depending on where they have to be located (fixed or floating?).

If you weren't so busy being rude you would notice I definitely didn't say RETROFIT, which would imply installing streak drive into existing construction. FYI I wrote about grav lances based on an old pearl where Weber said RMN SD's had grav lances. Forgive me for not cross checking that statement against HoS whilst making an off-hand comment.

From what you said I inferred "retrofit," simply because if you're designing a new class it makes no sense to talk about tradeoffs of weapons versus other features. BuShips and BuWeaps will do what it does for new designs, based on the current available tech and anticipated strategic needs.

I think the design stage is a crucial time to talk about trade offs. How else are you going to decide what goes into the ship design?

BobfromSydney wrote:More like Streak Drive 2.0 then

The strategic benefit of faster movement is a huge force multiplier. It would be crazy not to incorporate streak drive into larger ships so long as it's reasonably safe.

Defensively you have faster response times.

Offensively you spend less time travelling and have a quicker response rate to opportunities.

Operationally you can cycle units back to home base for maintenance cycles quicker. You can transfer units quicker.

Even if you take a mass penalty that means you need to chuck out some grasers or 5% of missile storage etc. it would still be worth it. You can delete the 'just in case' grav lance they fit on Manticoran SDs and put that space to good use.

JohnRoth wrote:Could you please RTFM? The Andural class was the only SD with a grav lance. The 14 hulls built were all retired by 1918.

The other point here is that the only existing example of a streak drive is approximately twice the size (volume? mass? number of hyper-gerbel wheels?) and capital ships have armor around their vital systems. Replacing a vital system with one that occupies more volume would require a pretty fundamental redesign of the core vital systems as well as cutting through super-dreadnaught class armor. Ain't gonna happen. Cheaper and possibly faster to build new SDs with all the new bells and whistles.

Now on new construction, I'd imagine that they'd leave some space for an upgrade in place --- assuming that Dr. Simoes knows the volume requirements, which isn't a given. He's specifically said to not know much about the actual hardware.

Now, on smaller ships an upgrade is more practical, but it would still require a pretty thorough redesign, and BuShips might well decide that incorporating it into new ship classes rather than doing expensive refits is the optimal way to go.

Of course, if Dr. Simoes and the rest of the team at Bolthole manages to come up with a design that fits in the same volume, then upgrading everything in sight would be a no-brainer. I'd imagine that would be a fairly high priority design objective, but not meeting it wouldn't hold up the project.

BobfromSydney wrote:When I said 'incorporate' I meant into new build designs. Larger hyper generators might even affect the hull shape near the impeller nodes depending on where they have to be located (fixed or floating?).

If you weren't so busy being rude you would notice I definitely didn't say RETROFIT, which would imply installing streak drive into existing construction. FYI I wrote about grav lances based on an old pearl where Weber said RMN SD's had grav lances. Forgive me for not cross checking that statement against HoS whilst making an off-hand comment.

JohnRoth wrote:
From what you said I inferred "retrofit," simply because if you're designing a new class it makes no sense to talk about tradeoffs of weapons versus other features. BuShips and BuWeaps will do what it does for new designs, based on the current available tech and anticipated strategic needs.

BobfromSydney wrote:I think the design stage is a crucial time to talk about trade offs. How else are you going to decide what goes into the ship design?

This is true. The point I was trying to make is that, if you're talking new ship classes, the designers aren't simply going to take an existing design and shuffle a few things around to fit in a single over-size component. That is, almost by definition, a retrofit. For a new class they're going to take a lot more into account, so trying to second-guess the actual designers (RFC in the person of BuWeaps or BuShips) didn't make any sense to me.

Short of the Sollies making a new SD no one else is going that way. Unless you meant a SD(P).

A Nike Sized ship might be Streak able but really if your going to use the streak you are going to put it in a smaller ship.

A Streak Roland that uses Mk36 LERM instead of Mk16 missiles might be streak able. A fast reaction ship which would have lesser missiles but be basically the same as the slower Roland.

The Manties don't really need Streak, they have the worm holes.

A streak fast freighter might be a good idea for specific speed needing cargo.

Lord Skimper wrote:
The Manties don't really need Streak, they have the worm holes.

A: The Wormhole Network doesn't lead to every system which the Manticoran Navy has reason to travel to and the increased speed of a Streak Drive vessel would be helpful in traveling between wormholes and destination systems which lack wormhole access.

B: Streak drive would be very helpful in the, albeit currently unlikely IMO, event that the RMN decides to use an attack plan like similar to that which Vice Admiral Saint James used in the San Martin War.

C: It would also aide in getting ships built at Bolthole into their assigned fleets faster.

Ignore me if this point has already been made, but even though I do not always understand the technical data very well, it seems to me that a SD-sized streak-drive ship would still be a better choice as a warship than one that is smaller, if any navy will choose to build such ships.

The reason I'm saying that is that even though an SD-sized ship's streak drive will be much larger than that of a smaller ship, the drive will still be proportional to the ship's size. Surely that means that an SD-sized streak-drive ship will still have much much more space for everything else than, say, one that is the size of a battlecruiser?

If I'm correct, wouldn't that mean that an SD-sized ship would have much more magazine space for missiles than a BC-sized one, despite having a much larger drive?