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Manticore Plague Years

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Re: Manticore Plague Years
Post by hanuman   » Fri Jul 11, 2014 3:44 pm

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runsforcelery wrote:
Dafmeister wrote:I've not read much about the early Star Kingdom, but did I'm not sure that the original colonist were given lands at the start. I was under the impression that the process of giving out lands came about when the colony switched from corporate-form government to a monarchy in the aftermath of the plague, with the original colonists vested with estates, titles and seats in the new House of Lords to ensure they'd continue to run things when the second wave of colonists began to arrive.


Nope.

The original colonists, who had invested in the expedition (as well as making the trip), all received "land grants" based on the percentage of their contribution to the cost of the expedition. That is, if you and your family had ponied up 2% of the colony's total investment, then you and your family received 2% of the distributed lands at the time of colonization. As has been noted, "lands" was a term which covered a whole host of "natural resources" which would be owned and/or regulated and administered.

Only a limited percentage of the total available "lands" was distributed even to the original colonists. (This was one of the things which made it possible to set aside a third of the surface of Sphinx for the treecats in perpetuity once they were discovered.) The remainder was jointly/corporately owned by the entire colony, to be administered by the Manticore Colony LTD's Board of Directors, which was transformed into the governing authority of the new star system. I don't have the exact percentage which went into immediate distribution in front of me at the moment, but it wasn't huge, because the whole idea was that the remainder of the undistributed lands (that portion of that which wasn't permanently set aside as nature preserves or for similar purposes) would be available to be sold as a major cash-producing resource for the government. (And this is the primary reason that the possibility of the treecats' sapience posed a serious financial threat to certain citizens of the Star Kingdom. Many of them had purchased options on land not yet distributed from the government to provide an immediate modest cash flow. Those options locked in a set purchase price for any "land" option, which was virtually certain to be far less than the market value at the time the government finally sold that land. If the treecats had been declared the sole, sapient owners of Sphinx, every one of those options would have become worthless.) Note that the government income derived from the later sale of lands we are talking here would be basically local cash revenues, distinct from those cash reserves still held back on Old Earth. The reason, of course, was that those Old Earth reserves were effectively unavailable for day-to-day expenses in Manticore due to the distance between the Manticore Binary System and Sol.

One of the major advantages of being an original investor/shareholder/colonist was that one got a much greater degree of choice about what "lands" one received. That is, values were assigned to all of the available tracts, and the original colonists were able to choose the tracts they wanted (equal in value to their investment credits) on a first-come/first-served basis. The order in which they were allowed to choose was randomly selected, so someone who was receiving a relatively small allotment might have been able to grab off the equivalent of Boardwalk and Park Place because he got in first. In addition, shareholders were entitled to pool their allotments, so long as a binding contract for how the acquired "lands" would then be distributed was executed before the "lands" in question were selected.

When the Plague hit, the original form of government was converted from that of a Board of Directors, elected by vote of all shareholders, into a monarchial form of government, and the original shareholders acquired patents of nobility, with their aristocratic rank determined on the basis of their net worth, which obviously depended upon the "lands" they'd initially received, plus anything they might have acquired since through investment, entrepreneurship, purchase, or trade. Quite a few of the new "barons" and "baronesses" were people who had been considered the equivalent of "yeoman farmers" before their ennoblement, and quite a few of those new "barons" and "baronesses" continued to be rutabaga farmers (or whatever) after receiving their shiny new titles. As has been said many times, this was a deliberate move to ensure that political power remained concentrated in the hands of the original colonists (and their families) in the face of the massive influx of new citizens they hoped to see arriving in response to the Star Kingdom's deliberate recruitment to replace losses to the Plague.

Once the new constitution had been put into place and a recruiting strategy — the funded travel to Manticore, paid for using funds from Old Earth, coupled with the ability to buy "lands" in the Star Kingdom at bargain prices (or receive lands without purchase equal in value to the percentage of their own passages the colonists paid for) — had been agreed upon, one of the Manticoran frigates was dispatched back to the Sol System with a representative of the newly crowned King Roger I to set things in motion.

During the colonization — or perhaps I should say re-colonization — period, there was much more traffic into Manticore than there had ever been before. Chartered vessels were the primary means by which the new colonists were delivered to their destination. Because of the nature of the recruiting effort, both the new colonists and the star systems from which they were recruited and the crews of their transport vessels were fully informed about the nature of the Plague, and you can be certain that the transports were very, very careful about the extent of their contact with the planetary surfaces. The same was obviously true of anyone who might wish to flee Manticore. However, aside from the frigates (owned and controlled by the government) there were no hyper-capable vessels available in the Manticore Binary System itself. That is, the only way that someone trying to out run the infection could have left the star system would have been aboard one of the government's wholly-owned frigates or (later) aboard one of the transports which had delivered new colonists to the system. As a consequence, there was effectively no chance of anyone getting out unnoted by the authorities both at their point of departure and their eventual point of arrival. I suppose that in theory someone might have been able to bribe the crew of one of the transports, although it seems unlikely to me that anybody serving in the closed environment of a starship's environmental system would even consider bringing aboard someone who might be infected with a deadly disease for a voyage which would last months. Of course, what do I know? :lol:

Anyway, I hope this answers some of the questions and speculation.


It sure does, Mr Weber. Thank you. However, it does leave others unanswered, like how the original colony expedition planned to function with such a top-heavy structure? I mean, it didn't include any non-shareholders, who would have been 'earmarked' to fulfil all those tasks and jobs that would be the domain of the 'working class' in a more well established society. But that's okay, because it's actually an interesting topic for discussion.

Your post DID raise one very intriguing question, though.
What IS it with sci-fi/fantasy authors and rutabaga farmers?
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Re: Manticore Plague Years
Post by Dafmeister   » Fri Jul 11, 2014 4:26 pm

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Firstly, thanks to RFC for clearing up my misunderstanding of the situation :D

Hanuman, you seem to be assuming that all of the colonists are going to be developing their own patch of 'land' themselves. I don't think that's terribly likely.

Say I'm one of the original colonists, a doctor by training. I'm not going to suddenly want to become a farmer or a prospector or a lumberjack just because I've taken position of a slice of Manticore's surface. I'm still going to be a doctor, I'll set up home in one of the new population centres and I'll fund the beginning of my practice by leasing the grazing rights to my land to another colonist who's setting up as a rancher, or the mineral exploration rights to a group of colonists starting a mining company, or the fishing rights to my bit of coastline to a colonist who's running a trawler (or whatever the Honorverse equivalent is). If I've been given a slice of the EM spectrum as my 'lands', I'll lease the use of those frequencies to the newly-established Manticore Communications Network, Ltd. I now have the seed money I need to set up in my own chosen field, and a backup income stream to supplement my professional fees.
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Re: Manticore Plague Years
Post by runsforcelery   » Fri Jul 11, 2014 4:34 pm

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Dafmeister wrote:Firstly, thanks to RFC for clearing up my misunderstanding of the situation :D

Hanuman, you seem to be assuming that all of the colonists are going to be developing their own patch of 'land' themselves. I don't think that's terribly likely.

Say I'm one of the original colonists, a doctor by training. I'm not going to suddenly want to become a farmer or a prospector or a lumberjack just because I've taken position of a slice of Manticore's surface. I'm still going to be a doctor, I'll set up home in one of the new population centres and I'll fund the beginning of my practice by leasing the grazing rights to my land to another colonist who's setting up as a rancher, or the mineral exploration rights to a group of colonists starting a mining company, or the fishing rights to my bit of coastline to a colonist who's running a trawler (or whatever the Honorverse equivalent is). If I've been given a slice of the EM spectrum as my 'lands', I'll lease the use of those frequencies to the newly-established Manticore Communications Network, Ltd. I now have the seed money I need to set up in my own chosen field, and a backup income stream to supplement my professional fees.



Pre-zaktly! :lol:

(Look, Michael! A one-word response!)


"Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as Piglet came back from the dead.
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Re: Manticore Plague Years
Post by Jonathan_S   » Fri Jul 11, 2014 5:02 pm

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BobfromSydney wrote:Your cold sleep suggestion might be workable, although it seems more likely that a lottery or vote system would have been used to select which colonists had that responsibility. Since this all occurred pre-prolong, it would have been a multi-generational endeavour to keep the trust profitable (without cold sleep). Even with cold sleep the people who were chosen to stay on Earth would have been quite old by the time the ship made it to Manticore. The MCT was also a big gamble that safe FTL travel would be available by the time the colony ship landed.
Detouring back to this point; I don't think it was all that big a gamble. Manticore had been surveyed by FTL scouts (admittedly it was quite dangerous and slow in that pre-impeller and pre-warshawski detector days)

Even if FTL travel had never gotten any safer the Manticore Trust could still arrange to pay the occasional FTL survey ship to detour by the Manticore system; where they could drop off new technology (or at least data dumps on new tech). Even getting one initial update of a few centuries of Earth's tech advances is probably enough of an advantage to make the Trust pay off for the colonists; and add in even once a decade updates thereafter and it looks even better.



Yes, they could reasonably expect hyper travel to get better over the centuries; but unless it actually got worse they still be able to take some advantage of a well funded Trust back on Earth.
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Re: Manticore Plague Years
Post by n7axw   » Fri Jul 11, 2014 5:14 pm

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And all of those ranches had a horse with accompaniments, a steer, a bale of straw in the back of the running pickup along with a gun rack mounted in the back window complete with cowboy wearing hat and boots...right? :lol:

Don
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: Manticore Plague Years
Post by Weird Harold   » Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:18 pm

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hanuman wrote:Your post DID raise one very intriguing question, though.
What IS it with sci-fi/fantasy authors and rutabaga farmers?


Anyone familiar with the Belgariad would recognize a "shout-out" to the late David Eddings. :lol:
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Answers! I got lots of answers!

(Now if I could just find the right questions.)
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Re: Manticore Plague Years
Post by Weird Harold   » Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:22 pm

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runsforcelery wrote:Pre-zaktly! :lol:

(Look, Michael! A one-word response!)


Not even that -- I can't find "Pre-zaktly" in a dictionary, so it's not even a word. :lol:
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Answers! I got lots of answers!

(Now if I could just find the right questions.)
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Re: Manticore Plague Years
Post by hanuman   » Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:26 pm

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Dafmeister wrote:Firstly, thanks to RFC for clearing up my misunderstanding of the situation :D

Hanuman, you seem to be assuming that all of the colonists are going to be developing their own patch of 'land' themselves. I don't think that's terribly likely.

Say I'm one of the original colonists, a doctor by training. I'm not going to suddenly want to become a farmer or a prospector or a lumberjack just because I've taken position of a slice of Manticore's surface. I'm still going to be a doctor, I'll set up home in one of the new population centres and I'll fund the beginning of my practice by leasing the grazing rights to my land to another colonist who's setting up as a rancher, or the mineral exploration rights to a group of colonists starting a mining company, or the fishing rights to my bit of coastline to a colonist who's running a trawler (or whatever the Honorverse equivalent is). If I've been given a slice of the EM spectrum as my 'lands', I'll lease the use of those frequencies to the newly-established Manticore Communications Network, Ltd. I now have the seed money I need to set up in my own chosen field, and a backup income stream to supplement my professional fees.


I suppose that undertakings like extracting minerals would be tailor-made for joint ventures, with a number of people or families pooling their shares and then working together under some kind of charter to develop their collective mineral rights. And there were obviously other industries that could be developed in the same manner.

But that still leaves us with the fact that, in order to join the colony expedition, each colonist or family of colonists had to make a substantial investment in the expedition (remember that there were several billion Eurodollars left after purchasing the colonisation rights, a ship AND outfitting the expedition, with only about 20-30 000 investors contributing).

That'd leave the expedition with a whole lot of shareholders who'd each receive a substantial share at arrival, and almost no one at all to fill the new society's 'working class' niche. And there would have been a need for workers, and not just owners or joint entrepreneurs - there always is, even in a technologically highly-advanced society.

Btw, how big was Roger Winton's initial investment? I mean, after the change to a monarchy, all the 'land' that wasn't awarded as shares became Crown property, right? But as I understand things, Crown property does not necessarily mean PERSONAL property of the monarch, or does it?
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Re: Manticore Plague Years
Post by hanuman   » Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:29 pm

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Weird Harold wrote:
hanuman wrote:Your post DID raise one very intriguing question, though.
What IS it with sci-fi/fantasy authors and rutabaga farmers?


Anyone familiar with the Belgariad would recognize a "shout-out" to the late David Eddings. :lol:


The Belgariad is where my love of fantasy and sci-fi began. Hah, I was nine years old at the time!

But Eddings wasn't the only author who had a hate on for rutabaga farmers! I think Mr Flint used it too, in one of his books.
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Re: Manticore Plague Years
Post by Uroboros   » Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:53 pm

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hanuman wrote:
Weird Harold wrote:Anyone familiar with the Belgariad would recognize a "shout-out" to the late David Eddings. :lol:


The Belgariad is where my love of fantasy and sci-fi began. Hah, I was nine years old at the time!

But Eddings wasn't the only author who had a hate on for rutabaga farmers! I think Mr Flint used it too, in one of his books.


Probably also a shout-out to Eddings, given how old the series is. The hatred of rutabegas in fantasy/sci-fi has a long and storied history.
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