Heavy Tri-barrels

WLBjork wrote:As for recoil, I'm aware that there are methods, techniques and tricks to reduce perceptible recoil. Modern firearms fire projectiles with more muzzle energy than old black powder muskets, and have less recoil due to a number of the aforementioned methods, techniques and tricks.

A lot of the old muskets shoot honking huge rounds. Like .70 caliber, each of which weights more than an ounce, or ~ 500 grains. An AR shoots a 55-62 gain round and a MMG a 140-170 grain round, so yeah, the old muskets have a LOT of recoil because recoil is based on mass x velocity and they have no bolt or other element to reduce felt recoil.

Semi-auto or full auto weapons bolt operation appear to soak up a lot of the recoil impulse. A bolt-action of the same caliber typically has significantly more perceived recoil. There are fancier ways to do this using hydraulics etc.

One of the few times I've played with a SMG I found that you can put the entire magazine into a fairly small area on a target if you lean into it and hold it strongly. However there is a limit to this, and rounds with both high recoil and fired at high cyclic rates are going to move you (and the muzzle off target) no matter what you do when the total force gets high enough.

This post is going to spank you publicly since you publicly dumped several braggadacio blowhard foolish statements in your tiny paragraph of a response.

As one who has actually had my hands on a number of prosthetic limbs and in the factory that makes said prosthetic limbs: A good friend of mine who designs said prosthetics for Willow Wood, the worlds leading prosthetic company at the moment due to their patents that everyone else in the world uses, and whom has an invention in said field regarding the titanium triangular/rhomboid attachment mechanism, used on EVERY SINGLE modern prosthetic, you sir, are full of ignorant bullshit and only spewing your ignorance on the internet trying to make yourself look smart(you didn't and you don't) .

Maybe you can find some 30 year old prosthetic that weighs more than your natural limb, though even that I highly doubt. Water is Very dense stuff compared to hollow plastic/fiberglass/velcro. You certainly will not find any today. The word today? Hmm, seems my original post had this word in it. Hmm. Hey, even bolded it for you.

Same goes for your second paragraph as well. So, ignorant you do not even know that muskets actually have/had equal or MORE muzzle energy depending on musket being compared than the most common rifles in the world today. AK-47/M16 variants. Only your hunting/sniping rifles 30-06/M14 etc and larger variants have higher muzzle energy today. Even a brief simple search can relieve ones ignorant status before typing eh?

Clearly you have never even fired a black powder musket/rifle. If you had and had likewise fired an M16 variant you would know that the recoil of the black powder is greater. In fact you would know it is the equal of firing a bolt action 7.62mm 180grain etc if you had ANY experience at all instead of talking out of your sphincter...

I have not done much black powder hunting, as I actually like killing my deer(I am not a very good shot), but black powder hunting allows me to go earlier in the hunting season. I get to cheat. I have a deer trail RIGHT behind my house. All I have to do is sit and wait as the wind is into my face all the time and I can get close where my rifled black powder lowered accuracy is not as large of a factor. I screwed up the seat and my accuracy is not all that great on my rifle. I need to redo it, but alas, time flies. Can't do everything in life. Still good to 100+ yards.

I have no idea who you are, but so far all you did is display your ignorance looking horrifically braggadocio blowhard foolish.

WLBjork wrote:

wastedfly wrote:Prosthetic arms/legs are MUCH lighter than the original... True today, and going to be true tomorrow. The ol' weight/mass applied to tissues not designed for the load becomes VERY uncomfortable to the user. Even when one cuts the nerves etc.

Some are, but many are not. The realistic looking artificial limbs are usually designed to be close to the size and weight of the lost limb (or part thereof).

As for recoil, I'm aware that there are methods, techniques and tricks to reduce perceptible recoil. Modern firearms fire projectiles with more muzzle energy than old black powder muskets, and have less recoil due to a number of the aforementioned methods, techniques and tricks.

Weird Harold wrote:

jgnfld wrote:Making the assumptions of a 5 gram dart going at 10K fps, each shot is a bit less than twice the recoil of a 180 grain 30-06 shot. Now fire off 100 of those in a second or 2 and that is a truly significant force to try to control by hand regardless of weapon weight.

So Honor's trick finger is uncontrollable?

I made a small error reading the wikia as the muzzle velocity is more like 6600fps. That brings the recoil down to about a .270 Win. Still pretty formidable in a hand held auto.

As for Honor: I would think Honor's finger is a pretty small pulser as it is not intended for long range use. As the recoil equation is not linear, a 4 gram dart at 6Kfps (pistol speed from wikia) is a much more manageable load. It would be about the same as a maxed out .22-250 w/ a 50 gr (3.2 gram) bullet at 3.9K fps using 40 gr of powder.

I'd agree that a black powder gun has much more recoil than a M16 or any rifle firing the little .223/5.56 round, and would agree that a 7.62 or 30/06 is similar. Possibly subjective but the black powder seems more abrupt, although it probably has no more overall shove than a modern grown up rifle.

On the matter of prosthetics, I freely admit to not being near to having any expertise, but a relative with two false lower legs has modern ones that are quite heavy. She was told they were deliberately made the same weight as the originals to assist her to walk naturally.

Daryl wrote:On the matter of prosthetics, I freely admit to not being near to having any expertise, but a relative with two false lower legs has modern ones that are quite heavy. She was told they were deliberately made the same weight as the originals to assist her to walk naturally.

I know exactly one person with a lower prosthetic leg.

Originally he had a heavy unarticulated foot.

Then in his words, he "finally" got a modern articulated foot lightweight leg with a new gel sock, he said it is so much better than before. From my viewpoint his "gait" shall we say, is vastly improved with the new leg.

From my very simple, crude, observation of this individual, I would say prosthetic matching normal appendages has far more to do with articulation than mass matching. I would think mass matching would tie closer into memory recall than anything else. Probably depends where the amputee happened???

Courtesy of the UK National Health. I have to say that she isn't very mobile.

J6P wrote:

Daryl wrote:On the matter of prosthetics, I freely admit to not being near to having any expertise, but a relative with two false lower legs has modern ones that are quite heavy. She was told they were deliberately made the same weight as the originals to assist her to walk naturally.

I know exactly one person with a lower prosthetic leg.

Originally he had a heavy unarticulated foot.

Then in his words, he "finally" got a modern articulated foot lightweight leg with a new gel sock, he said it is so much better than before. From my viewpoint his "gait" shall we say, is vastly improved with the new leg.

From my very simple, crude, observation of this individual, I would say prosthetic matching normal appendages has far more to do with articulation than mass matching. I would think mass matching would tie closer into memory recall than anything else. Probably depends where the amputee happened???

kzt wrote:

WLBjork wrote:As for recoil, I'm aware that there are methods, techniques and tricks to reduce perceptible recoil. Modern firearms fire projectiles with more muzzle energy than old black powder muskets, and have less recoil due to a number of the aforementioned methods, techniques and tricks.

A lot of the old muskets shoot honking huge rounds. Like .70 caliber, each of which weights more than an ounce, or ~ 500 grains. An AR shoots a 55-62 gain round and a MMG a 140-170 grain round, so yeah, the old muskets have a LOT of recoil because recoil is based on mass x velocity and they have no bolt or other element to reduce felt recoil.

And black power makes for a more of an instant 'spike' in pressure when it goes off; compared to modern smokeless powders. I know that means a black powder gun of the same power needs a stronger breach than one using the modern propellant.

But would that also translate into a perceived higher recoil because the instantaneous force at the beginning is higher? (Instead of that same force spread out over a few more hundred-thousandths of a seconds)

Weird Harold wrote:
Using the whole arm is difficult when firing from the hip (with your eyes closed and facing away from your target.)

Nope. It only means less effective. It´s still the whole arm that faces the recoil first, and with the arm stronger than a normal, it´s like being partially in a "light" version battle armour.

wastedfly wrote:A good friend of mine who designs said prosthetics for Willow Wood, the worlds leading prosthetic company at the moment due to their patents that everyone else in the world uses, and whom has an invention in said field regarding the titanium triangular/rhomboid attachment mechanism, used on EVERY SINGLE modern prosthetic

I´m afraid that that is a lie. A friend of mine that have been part of the paralympics, what s/he uses is NOT covered under ANY patents.

That was an intentional, outspoken choice by the designer because it caused too much extra costs without any real benefits.
And that´s not the only prosthetics designer that have made that same choice.

That much at least, i KNOW.

wastedfly wrote:Maybe you can find some 30 year old prosthetic that weighs more than your natural limb, though even that I highly doubt. Water is Very dense stuff compared to hollow plastic/fiberglass/velcro.

There is quite a wide range of prosthetics, highly dependant on what the user needs and how they feel with different types.

My impression is that the "normal" is to have them slightly lighter than the original limb, as that makes balance adjustment easier while compensating at least a little for commonly being awkward to some extent.

But i know at least OF someone who has opted for an extremely light weight prosthetic, at the price of it having much reduced capability, due to special reasons.

( it´s impossible not to pick a few things up when you happen to live just a few km from one of the oldest schools for handicapped children in the world )

wastedfly wrote:depending on musket being compared than the most common rifles in the world today. AK-47/M16 variants.

And AK-74 (5.45x39 replacement for AK-47(7.62x39))(,and potentially FNC, FAL and G3 (and probably some i forgot about)).

http://www.gotoreads.com/house-steel-ho ... page=0,212

Unless the tri barrel is the same as mounted on the assault shuttles, used in Shawdows of Freedom, I don't recall a specific calibre. The stadium incident.