Military Speculations

No one knows if the OBS is operating on auto looking for activity to trigger a strike. It might be passive/self defense only until an activation command is given. If this is true, nothing the IC does will trigger a strike. That's just it. Too much is unknown. Discover more before you head off to conquer Zion.

It might even be wise to experiment with SNARKS inside the Temple after the truce. Perhaps the Temple will ignore recording devices and respond only to broadcasts. Again, research and plan well before you attack.

At this point we might just agree to disagree.

Weird Harold wrote:

PeterZ wrote:Before the revelation of the Wylsyns Key, ...

The revelation of the Wylsynn Key makes neutralizing whatver is under the Temple even more urgent -- what if one of Clynntahn's minions has something similar?

They can hunt around outside of the Temple until even Merlin and Nimue die of old age, but they will do so knowing that the answers they seek are definitely found inside the Temple and only maybe found outside.

Sooner or later the Temple has to be invaded, and the innovation Merlin has set in motion is going to reach a point that should definitely trigger the OBS soon, will he, nil he. If the Temple and OBS haven't been neutralized before that happens, Merlin's plans for this generation are toast.

PeterZ wrote:Suppose the only way in requires terran weapons? Suppose the room Father Paityr has to go to only has a slot for the Key but no other access to the computer? That access requires going through the Temple walls. Terran armour walls. Perhaps there are other complications.

The only way to find out if any of your wildest fears are warranted is to occupy the Temple and examine it.

PeterZ wrote:You need to recon the Temple with people who are familiar with terran tech. That means Father Paityr going in not to activate the Key, but to examine the activation room. He or some IC member needs examine as much of the Temple as possible well before the attack.

How do you propose to get Father Paiytr access to the Temple without getting him invited to a public execution as a heretic?

PeterZ wrote:That means accepting the peace/truce when it is offered. Duchairn and Magwair will off Clyntahn to salvage something of the GoGA before the Allies take everything down. When offered, the Allies will accept and the cold war begins with a grudging acceptance of the terms by most of the jihadi nations.

Duchairn and Magwair don't have the chance of a snowflake in a blast furnace of staying in power. Charis might settle for exile to a monastery (in Charis) but I'm not so sure that the Siddarmark Republic and other allies will be so forgiving.

If a peace/truce includes unfettered access to the Temple, then so much the better; the inner Circle can search at their leisure. I don't expect unfettered access to be offered to heretics even if Duchairn and Magwair would consider an kind of end to Jihad.

In fact, I don't expect any offer of truce or treaty until Charis and her Allies occupy the Temple.

PeterZ wrote:Don,

Suppose the only way in requires terran weapons? Suppose the room Father Paityr has to go to only has a slot for the Key but no other access to the computer? That access requires going through the Temple walls. Terran armour walls. Perhaps there are other complications.

You need to recon the Temple with people who are familiar with terran tech. That means Father Paityr going in not to activate the Key, but to examine the activation room. He or some IC member needs examine as much of the Temple as possible well before the attack. The process of examination might take years. Take the time to do it right.

That means accepting the peace/truce when it is offered. Duchairn and Magwair will off Clyntahn to salvage something of the GoGA before the Allies take everything down. When offered, the Allies will accept and the cold war begins with a grudging acceptance of the terms by most of the jihadi nations.

I'm going to go back and look, but that's not the picture I remember from HFAF when Father Paityr is initiated into the inner circle. I think that's all the textev we have of what's actually there. But I will look and report back.

Depending on Duchairn and Magwair to take down Clyntahn could be a case of counting chickens before they hatch. So we'll see..

As for your scenario, I suspect that Merlin and Nimue are the only ones who understand the underlying principles behind the tech well enough to cope with the possibilities you describe. So if you are going to send in a force equiped with full federation tech (shrug), you just as well send one of them along.

I am willing to wait if waiting actually serves a useful purpose. But again, I'm concerned that we might not have the time you seem to be assuming.

I am willing to admit that I'm sort of visualizing a scene similar to what Sean and Sandy found in that scene in the final chapter of Heirs of Empire. I know that we are not supposed to mix up David's universes, but I find the parallels irresistable at this point.

Perhaps HFQ will give us a few more clues to inform our conjecture...

Don

Hi Weird Harold,

The way you get him in is to disguise his identity. You certainly don't bring him along and introduce him by sayng, "here is Father Paityr. We're sending him to the basement to blow up the archangels.

Otherwise, I pretty much agree with what I am hearing you saying, especially the bit about Durchairn and Magwair surviving their ascent to power --and I would add if they manage to ascend at all.

Don

n7axw wrote:The way you get him in is to disguise his identity. You certainly don't bring him along and introduce him by saying, "here is Father Paityr. We're sending him to the basement to blow up the archangels.

Obviously you would not advertise his presence or purpose, but how do you get him past the door guards restricting access by anyone?

Once you get him inside, how do you prevent him from being recognized at an inconvenient moment by an old teacher or classmate?

Having control of the Temple before you bring him in, makes anything Father Paityr needs to do much easier and safer.

if they targeted zion, then secured the access points to the cuity and the temple, they could starve the priests out. They can then send in church are charis priests to take away the temple treasures for safe keeping in the empire and republic, while secretly the circle checks out the added features of the temple.
access to the temple is very restricted, and limited. if the empire can fortify it self there, it would takes ages to to force them out.

Weird Harold wrote:

n7axw wrote:The way you get him in is to disguise his identity. You certainly don't bring him along and introduce him by saying, "here is Father Paityr. We're sending him to the basement to blow up the archangels.

Obviously you would not advertise his presence or purpose, but how do you get him past the door guards restricting access by anyone?

Once you get him inside, how do you prevent him from being recognized at an inconvenient moment by an old teacher or classmate?

Having control of the Temple before you bring him in, makes anything Father Paityr needs to do much easier and safer.

Disguise, Harold, diguise. Change the color of his hair. Add weight to his frame. Paste a scar on his face. Darken his complexion. Father Paityr disappears. Put Aivah in charge of the Father Paityr disappears project.

Don

n7axw wrote:Disguise, Harold, diguise. Change the color of his hair. Add weight to his frame. Paste a scar on his face. Darken his complexion. Father Paityr disappears. Put Aivah in charge of the Father Paityr disappears project.

[Scene: Activation chamber below the Temple}

Father Paityr in disguise inserts his Key into the receptacle obviously intended for it.

A voice from everywhere and nowhere: "State your Name"

"Father Paityr Wylsynn, last of the Wylsynn line"

"Paityr Wylsynn not recognized! Unauthoraized User! Access Denied!"

There is a bright flash and Father Paityr disappears. Ventilation fans come on and the room goes dark.

Weird Harold wrote:

n7axw wrote:Disguise, Harold, diguise. Change the color of his hair. Add weight to his frame. Paste a scar on his face. Darken his complexion. Father Paityr disappears. Put Aivah in charge of the Father Paityr disappears project.

[Scene: Activation chamber below the Temple}

Father Paityr in disguise inserts his Key into the receptacle obviously intended for it.

A voice from everywhere and nowhere: "State your Name"

"Father Paityr Wylsynn, last of the Wylsynn line"

"Paityr Wylsynn not recognized! Unauthoraized User! Access Denied!"

There is a bright flash and Father Paityr disappears. Ventilation fans come on and the room goes dark.

The only issue with this is for recognition software to work on the time frames being discussed it would need to be genetically keyed - in the male line to the Y-chromosome and for the female line mitochondrial DNA. Both are conserved in direct descent and paint or dye will not obscure this traces.
For males, this assumes that somewhere in the past an ancestor was not one of the 25 odd percent of children born who are unrelated to the male of the house (current stat's for women getting pregnant whilst having an extramarital affair). The textev however indicated that Father Paityr was descended from the Wilsynn line.

AirTech wrote:The only issue with this is for recognition software to work on the time frames being discussed it would need to be genetically keyed - in the male line to the Y-chromosome and for the female line mitochondrial DNA. Both are conserved in direct descent and paint or dye will not obscure this traces.

First, that was seriously tongue-in-cheek. I do not expect the Temple to run facial recognition against a list of authorized persons. It probably could, but there's no textev of a ceremony or ritual introducing residents to the Temple AI.

Paityr Wylsynn has been in the Temple and would be recognized if the Temple was running recognition checks; he would be stunned or executed before reaching the basement if his disguise was good enough to fool an AI.