Heavy Tri-barrels

...And then again...

The following is from a GD video posted to YouTube,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1VMHQzwDwc

(Remember to adjust for 2000 years of development, portable power supplies that can power contra-grave units and armored suits, tri-barreled not 5-6 barreled, caseless ammo, nano-optimized exotic materials, San Martinos & Sphinxians, and powered armor.)

(Also recall that 'heavy' tri-barrels in the HV are portable arms, not personal arms, unless the user IS in powered armor.)


"Published on Mar 22, 2013


Three barrels, .50 caliber and 1,300 shots per minute all add up to one effective weapon system.

General Dynamics Ordnance & Tactical Systems manufactures the lightweight GAU-19/B Gatling gun for application on a variety of air, land and sea platforms, including helicopters, fixed wing aircraft, land-based vehicles, naval vessels and
high-speed patrol boats.

With a rate of fire of 1,300 shots per minute, the .50 caliber GAU-19/B provides superior firepower in a lightweight system. The total system weight of the three barrel GAU-19/B is neutral to that of a single barrel machine gun.

The simple, low-cost weapon system offers minimal maintenance and high reliability: GAU-19/B has an unmatched 40,000 mean rounds between failure. Initial scheduled maintenance begins at 35,000 rounds.

Air :

The GAU-19/B is effective in both air-to-air and air-to-ground missions. The weapon provides highly effective firepower against area suppression and point targets, as well as being ideally suited for utility, scout and attack helicopters and fixed-wing aircraft.

Ground :

Mounted on armored personnel carriers or utility vehicles, such as the High Mobility Multi-Purpose Wheeled Vehicle, the GAU-19/B offers a high rate of fire in a simple, low-cost weapon system and produces devastating firepower against light vehicles and ground forces. Installed as secondary armament on larger weapon systems, the GAU-19/B affords protection against close-in ground threats and provides air defense capability.

Sea :

The GAU-19/B is ideal for use on a variety of surface navy ships and patrol boats. On light patrol boats, the GAU-19/B provides lethal suppressive firepower. When installed on larger naval craft, the weapon system offers close-in protection against smaller seabased threats. Firing at 1,300 shots per minute, the GAU-19/B provides unparalleled firepower to counter both air attacks and high-speed surface threats.







Category


Science & Technology


License


Standard YouTube License

."

The OP was asking about something like this:



As featured in the movie Predator. The GE M134 is chambered for 7.62x51 NATO.

From: http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/GE_M134_Minigun

A distinctive invention of fiction is the hand-held M134 minigun, a concept which was popularized by the film Predator. Physically demanding even for a slowed-down minigun firing blanks, such a weapon would be impossible for a human being to either carry or operate. This fact has not stopped it appearing frequently in other works, especially in video games. Generally such depictions will totally ignore the weapon's need for external power, and sometimes even forget it requires a source of ammunition.

The one in the movie was the 5.56mm version. Didn't go into wide use, but there was a 5.56mm version. I've seen some comments about what they needed to just run the gun in the movie, and it was kind of excessive for a gun that had no recoil (due to shooting blanks). It's not exactly surprising that it didn't go into common infantry use...

kzt wrote:The one in the movie was the 5.56mm version. Didn't go into wide use, but there was a 5.56mm version. I've seen some comments about what they needed to just run the gun in the movie, and it was kind of excessive for a gun that had no recoil (due to shooting blanks). It's not exactly surprising that it didn't go into common infantry use...

The site I quoted claim it was the 7.62 version and I haven't found any references to a 5.56 version.

I have found a 22LR version, though:

http://www.military.com/video/guns/gatl ... 687173001/

Skimpy, can you post a link the 14mm/14.5mm gatling you cited, please? Google can't find it.

Weird Harold wrote:There is a version of the minigun that fires BBs with compressed air.

I don't know of any version chambered for 5.56.

Some years ago i read about someone who did a working "minigun" using 9x19 ammo(ie pistol/SMG ammo), even with the much weaker ammo, it still needed someone very strong to carry the weapon and backpack with ammofeed and powerpack(batteries and a model engine for charging, with the weapon selfpowering after the first 10 or so shots).

A mostly absurd and useless weapon, but he made it work as it looked on movie and in games.

Weird Harold wrote:Honorverse grav accelerators don't have the kind of recoil problems 7.62x51 produces, but the physical size of a "Heavy Tribarrel" in 10mm would probably require contra-grav to make it man-portable. The 25mm version would require even more contra-grav and recoil suppression to be man portable.

All that aside, with three calibers available, and contra-grav to make them man portable, I would expect the designations to be Light, Medium, and Heavy for 5mm, 10mm and 25mm respectively.

25mm as manportable? Even with a seriously powerful powersuit/battle armour, that is waaaaayy too much.



#####

MaxxQ wrote:Edit: On further thinking, since one doesn't have to worry about tiny little things like Pyrodex exploding in the casing/chamber, the barrels and other parts do not necessarily need to be made of metal - high-strength and lightweight composites should be sufficient, so the weapon may be lighter than you might think. I still think you'd need to be in battle armor (or the civilian equivalent) to handle one though. I suppose the battery pack probably weighs a hell of a lot... but that's just a guess on my part.

The barrels can be lighter yes, but you still need a little something to accelerate those wee little darts, that´s going to put much of the weight back again.

And at a hundred shots per second? Even if the shots are a puny 5g each(since they´re explosive that´s not entirely unrealistic even for a larger weapon), that´s half a kg of shots per SECOND.

I don´t remember the stated V0, but even if it´s just close to current rifles, the amount of energy is still absurdly high.

A 25mm gun would weigh MUCH more.

Historical 20mm cannons had shells commonly ranging from 80-150g, adjusting for much less metal and more explosives, we MIGHT be able to get a 25mm dart down to maybe 50g(unlikely but...), then lets guess that the weapon has 1/2 the rate of fire from the 5mm one(again probably too "nice")...

That´s 50*50= 2.5kg per second. That´s going to throw someone even wearing a HUGE battle armour.

50g at a (probably too low)guess V0 of ~1000m/s, that makes each shot vaugely similar to the most extreme 12.7mm ammo available for regular HMGs or Russian 14.5mm.

Doesn´t sound so bad until you figure out that you´re trying to shoot at least twice the rate of fire common for those weapons, probably far more, and with a lighter weapon (which means less weight to absorb recoil before affecting the shooter).

And the fact that even those weapons produce about 10 times more joule per shot than is considered tolerable for a regular infantryman without power assist to be effective with autofire.

So while a battle armour should add quite a bit, i rather doubt it allows quite that much of a bonus.

Basically, 25mm manportable? Not a chance. Not even with wildly optimistic and unrealistic numbers. Would be completely uncontrollable weapons that would actually manage to push or even throw people back when fired.

Of course, there's also the possibility that the rounds may be *less* than 10mm. Anthing above what the OP quoted as 4-5mm would likely be considered "heavy", so maybe 7.5mm?

That sounds a lot more possible yes. But probably needs plenty of tech assist to deal with the recoil.




#####

kzt wrote:The one in the movie was the 5.56mm version. Didn't go into wide use, but there was a 5.56mm version. I've seen some comments about what they needed to just run the gun in the movie, and it was kind of excessive for a gun that had no recoil (due to shooting blanks). It's not exactly surprising that it didn't go into common infantry use...

Ehm, blanks doesn´t mean zero recoil. Even movie blanks have some recoil. And at the rate of fire involved, it quickly adds up.

I recall they required a water hose for cooling as well as a powercable for the spin engine. Both hidden on the ground and going up through his trouser leg.

dreamrider wrote:...And then again...

The following is from a GD video posted to YouTube,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1VMHQzwDwc

(Remember to adjust for 2000 years of development, portable power supplies that can power contra-grave units and armored suits, tri-barreled not 5-6 barreled, caseless ammo, nano-optimized exotic materials, San Martinos & Sphinxians, and powered armor.)

(Also recall that 'heavy' tri-barrels in the HV are portable arms, not personal arms, unless the user IS in powered armor.)

You realise that that can only manage at best about 1/3 of the rate of fire of the HV tri-barrel.

And can only do so from a vehicle that weighs SEVERAL tons.

Look at how the hummer moves from the recoil when firing sideways. That´s the 5ton version if i´m seeing right.

The PR folks says it has an "average" recoil force of 2.2kN. That´s 220kg worth of push. Or about a quarter of the power in the first generation engines of WWII jet fighters(i checked and it´s actually exactly 1/4 of the power of the Me-262 engines)...

You can also take notice that when they fire from the helicopter, there´s noticeable shaking, and the pilot has to turn against the recoil to compensate(notice what happens when it stops firing, it takes a moment for the pilot to stop compensating).

(that kind of gun should REALLY be in a spinal mount on a helicopter, sheesh!)



#####

Skimpy, can you post a link the 14mm/14.5mm gatling you cited, please? Google can't find it.

Ugh, it´s a rotary, not a Gatling. A Gatling weapon is a specific subset of rotaries. It´s like calling an M-16 an AK-47 because both are automatic weapons.

Weird Harold wrote:The site I quoted claim it was the 7.62 version and I haven't found any references to a 5.56 version.

5.56mm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XM214_Microgun AKA the GE Six-Pak. I've seen much better descriptions, but can't find anything online right now.

In .50 BMG
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GAU-19

In 14.5mm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slostin_machine_gun
and
http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/army/ch ... -5695.html

I say again,
"Remember to adjust for 2000 years of development...", etc.

dreamrider

Tenshinai wrote:

dreamrider wrote:...And then again...

The following is from a GD video posted to YouTube,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1VMHQzwDwc

(Remember to adjust for 2000 years of development, portable power supplies that can power contra-grave units and armored suits, tri-barreled not 5-6 barreled, caseless ammo, nano-optimized exotic materials, San Martinos & Sphinxians, and powered armor.)

(Also recall that 'heavy' tri-barrels in the HV are portable arms, not personal arms, unless the user IS in powered armor.)

You realise that that can only manage at best about 1/3 of the rate of fire of the HV tri-barrel.

And can only do so from a vehicle that weighs SEVERAL tons.

Look at how the hummer moves from the recoil when firing sideways. That´s the 5ton version if i´m seeing right.

The PR folks says it has an "average" recoil force of 2.2kN. That´s 220kg worth of push. Or about a quarter of the power in the first generation engines of WWII jet fighters(i checked and it´s actually exactly 1/4 of the power of the Me-262 engines)...

You can also take notice that when they fire from the helicopter, there´s noticeable shaking, and the pilot has to turn against the recoil to compensate(notice what happens when it stops firing, it takes a moment for the pilot to stop compensating).

(that kind of gun should REALLY be in a spinal mount on a helicopter, sheesh!)



#####

Skimpy, can you post a link the 14mm/14.5mm gatling you cited, please? Google can't find it.

Ugh, it´s a rotary, not a Gatling. A Gatling weapon is a specific subset of rotaries. It´s like calling an M-16 an AK-47 because both are automatic weapons.

kzt wrote:5.56mm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XM214_Microgun AKA the GE Six-Pak. I've seen much better descriptions, but can't find anything online right now.

Aha! I was searching for gatling guns and miniguns, not "microguns." That does look much more useable as a man portable weapon.

Tenshinai wrote:
You realise that that can only manage at best about 1/3 of the rate of fire of the HV tri-barrel.

And can only do so from a vehicle that weighs SEVERAL tons.

Look at how the hummer moves from the recoil when firing sideways. That´s the 5ton version if i´m seeing right.

We're well aware that real world rotary weapons can't possibly match the recoil-less weight-less weapons possible with Honorverse tech.

I real world terms, the XM214 cited by kzt is probably pushing the limits of man portable, but the real world doesn't have San Martinos, Ndebelese, sphinxians, or other heavy worlders in powered battle armor to compensate for recoil and weight.

Just as a wag, the Honorverse should be able to support five or ten times the weight and recoil -- 27.8mm to 55.6mm through handwavium anti-recoil tech and unobtainium weight reduction.

Tenshinai wrote:Ugh, it´s a rotary, not a Gatling. A Gatling weapon is a specific subset of rotaries. It´s like calling an M-16 an AK-47 because both are automatic weapons.

Tell that to Skimpy. He's the one who called it a "Gatling."

Weird Harold wrote:Just as a wag, the Honorverse should be able to support five or ten times the weight and recoil -- 27.8mm to 55.6mm through handwavium anti-recoil tech and unobtainium weight reduction.

Under certain circumstances, sure. Given that marines are largely trained for boarding ships and ships are inherently at zero G there are real limits, unless David just hasn't mentioned the impeller drive built into power armor....

Please keep in mind that to the current military planners and designers of this world, "man portable" means a weapon breaks down into loads of 25 to 60 pounds for a crew of 2 to 5 operators and assistants.

Most machine guns ever made were in some version "man-portable", including the M2 .50 (although, having humped a portion of that load, I'd say that one is pushing it.)

"Man-portable" does NOT mean carried and operated by 1 man. At the least, it usually means 1 guy carries the unitary weapon as his extra load, and 1 helper carries the basic load of ammo as his extra. Some so-called "man-portable" weapons (the 81mm mortar comes to mind) might need a crew of 5-6 to hump all their components and a useful bit of ammo.

"Man-portable" just means that you don't always have to have a truck or a mule or a wheeled mount to displace and implace; a small crew of determined, cursing guys can get the weapon into some nearly impossible place that the captain has his eye on.

...or one space-armored San Martino marine. <grin>

dreamrider