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Re: Heavy Tri-barrels | |
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by dreamrider » Sat Jun 28, 2014 8:47 pm | |
dreamrider
Posts: 1108
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...And then again...
The following is from a GD video posted to YouTube, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1VMHQzwDwc (Remember to adjust for 2000 years of development, portable power supplies that can power contra-grave units and armored suits, tri-barreled not 5-6 barreled, caseless ammo, nano-optimized exotic materials, San Martinos & Sphinxians, and powered armor.) (Also recall that 'heavy' tri-barrels in the HV are portable arms, not personal arms, unless the user IS in powered armor.) "Published on Mar 22, 2013 Three barrels, .50 caliber and 1,300 shots per minute all add up to one effective weapon system. General Dynamics Ordnance & Tactical Systems manufactures the lightweight GAU-19/B Gatling gun for application on a variety of air, land and sea platforms, including helicopters, fixed wing aircraft, land-based vehicles, naval vessels and high-speed patrol boats. With a rate of fire of 1,300 shots per minute, the .50 caliber GAU-19/B provides superior firepower in a lightweight system. The total system weight of the three barrel GAU-19/B is neutral to that of a single barrel machine gun. The simple, low-cost weapon system offers minimal maintenance and high reliability: GAU-19/B has an unmatched 40,000 mean rounds between failure. Initial scheduled maintenance begins at 35,000 rounds. Air : The GAU-19/B is effective in both air-to-air and air-to-ground missions. The weapon provides highly effective firepower against area suppression and point targets, as well as being ideally suited for utility, scout and attack helicopters and fixed-wing aircraft. Ground : Mounted on armored personnel carriers or utility vehicles, such as the High Mobility Multi-Purpose Wheeled Vehicle, the GAU-19/B offers a high rate of fire in a simple, low-cost weapon system and produces devastating firepower against light vehicles and ground forces. Installed as secondary armament on larger weapon systems, the GAU-19/B affords protection against close-in ground threats and provides air defense capability. Sea : The GAU-19/B is ideal for use on a variety of surface navy ships and patrol boats. On light patrol boats, the GAU-19/B provides lethal suppressive firepower. When installed on larger naval craft, the weapon system offers close-in protection against smaller seabased threats. Firing at 1,300 shots per minute, the GAU-19/B provides unparalleled firepower to counter both air attacks and high-speed surface threats. Category Science & Technology License Standard YouTube License ." |
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Re: Honorverse series, the future..? | |
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by kzt » Sat Jun 28, 2014 9:01 pm | |
kzt
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The one in the movie was the 5.56mm version. Didn't go into wide use, but there was a 5.56mm version. I've seen some comments about what they needed to just run the gun in the movie, and it was kind of excessive for a gun that had no recoil (due to shooting blanks). It's not exactly surprising that it didn't go into common infantry use... |
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Re: Honorverse series, the future..? | |
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by Weird Harold » Sat Jun 28, 2014 10:43 pm | |
Weird Harold
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The site I quoted claim it was the 7.62 version and I haven't found any references to a 5.56 version. I have found a 22LR version, though: http://www.military.com/video/guns/gatl ... 687173001/ Skimpy, can you post a link the 14mm/14.5mm gatling you cited, please? Google can't find it. .
. . Answers! I got lots of answers! (Now if I could just find the right questions.) |
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Re: Heavy Tri-barrels | |
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by Tenshinai » Sat Jun 28, 2014 10:52 pm | |
Tenshinai
Posts: 2893
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Some years ago i read about someone who did a working "minigun" using 9x19 ammo(ie pistol/SMG ammo), even with the much weaker ammo, it still needed someone very strong to carry the weapon and backpack with ammofeed and powerpack(batteries and a model engine for charging, with the weapon selfpowering after the first 10 or so shots). A mostly absurd and useless weapon, but he made it work as it looked on movie and in games.
25mm as manportable? Even with a seriously powerful powersuit/battle armour, that is waaaaayy too much. #####
The barrels can be lighter yes, but you still need a little something to accelerate those wee little darts, that´s going to put much of the weight back again. And at a hundred shots per second? Even if the shots are a puny 5g each(since they´re explosive that´s not entirely unrealistic even for a larger weapon), that´s half a kg of shots per SECOND. I don´t remember the stated V0, but even if it´s just close to current rifles, the amount of energy is still absurdly high. A 25mm gun would weigh MUCH more. Historical 20mm cannons had shells commonly ranging from 80-150g, adjusting for much less metal and more explosives, we MIGHT be able to get a 25mm dart down to maybe 50g(unlikely but...), then lets guess that the weapon has 1/2 the rate of fire from the 5mm one(again probably too "nice")... That´s 50*50= 2.5kg per second. That´s going to throw someone even wearing a HUGE battle armour. 50g at a (probably too low)guess V0 of ~1000m/s, that makes each shot vaugely similar to the most extreme 12.7mm ammo available for regular HMGs or Russian 14.5mm. Doesn´t sound so bad until you figure out that you´re trying to shoot at least twice the rate of fire common for those weapons, probably far more, and with a lighter weapon (which means less weight to absorb recoil before affecting the shooter). And the fact that even those weapons produce about 10 times more joule per shot than is considered tolerable for a regular infantryman without power assist to be effective with autofire. So while a battle armour should add quite a bit, i rather doubt it allows quite that much of a bonus. Basically, 25mm manportable? Not a chance. Not even with wildly optimistic and unrealistic numbers. Would be completely uncontrollable weapons that would actually manage to push or even throw people back when fired.
That sounds a lot more possible yes. But probably needs plenty of tech assist to deal with the recoil. #####
Ehm, blanks doesn´t mean zero recoil. Even movie blanks have some recoil. And at the rate of fire involved, it quickly adds up. I recall they required a water hose for cooling as well as a powercable for the spin engine. Both hidden on the ground and going up through his trouser leg. |
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Re: Heavy Tri-barrels | |
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by Tenshinai » Sat Jun 28, 2014 10:56 pm | |
Tenshinai
Posts: 2893
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You realise that that can only manage at best about 1/3 of the rate of fire of the HV tri-barrel. And can only do so from a vehicle that weighs SEVERAL tons. Look at how the hummer moves from the recoil when firing sideways. That´s the 5ton version if i´m seeing right. The PR folks says it has an "average" recoil force of 2.2kN. That´s 220kg worth of push. Or about a quarter of the power in the first generation engines of WWII jet fighters(i checked and it´s actually exactly 1/4 of the power of the Me-262 engines)... You can also take notice that when they fire from the helicopter, there´s noticeable shaking, and the pilot has to turn against the recoil to compensate(notice what happens when it stops firing, it takes a moment for the pilot to stop compensating). (that kind of gun should REALLY be in a spinal mount on a helicopter, sheesh!) #####
Ugh, it´s a rotary, not a Gatling. A Gatling weapon is a specific subset of rotaries. It´s like calling an M-16 an AK-47 because both are automatic weapons. |
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Re: Honorverse series, the future..? | |
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by kzt » Sat Jun 28, 2014 10:58 pm | |
kzt
Posts: 11360
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5.56mm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XM214_Microgun AKA the GE Six-Pak. I've seen much better descriptions, but can't find anything online right now. In .50 BMG http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GAU-19 In 14.5mm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slostin_machine_gun and http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/army/ch ... -5695.html |
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Re: Heavy Tri-barrels | |
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by dreamrider » Sat Jun 28, 2014 11:25 pm | |
dreamrider
Posts: 1108
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I say again,
"Remember to adjust for 2000 years of development...", etc. dreamrider
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Re: Honorverse series, the future..? | |
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by Weird Harold » Sat Jun 28, 2014 11:32 pm | |
Weird Harold
Posts: 4478
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Aha! I was searching for gatling guns and miniguns, not "microguns." That does look much more useable as a man portable weapon.
We're well aware that real world rotary weapons can't possibly match the recoil-less weight-less weapons possible with Honorverse tech. I real world terms, the XM214 cited by kzt is probably pushing the limits of man portable, but the real world doesn't have San Martinos, Ndebelese, sphinxians, or other heavy worlders in powered battle armor to compensate for recoil and weight. Just as a wag, the Honorverse should be able to support five or ten times the weight and recoil -- 27.8mm to 55.6mm through handwavium anti-recoil tech and unobtainium weight reduction.
Tell that to Skimpy. He's the one who called it a "Gatling." .
. . Answers! I got lots of answers! (Now if I could just find the right questions.) |
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Re: Honorverse series, the future..? | |
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by kzt » Sat Jun 28, 2014 11:53 pm | |
kzt
Posts: 11360
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Under certain circumstances, sure. Given that marines are largely trained for boarding ships and ships are inherently at zero G there are real limits, unless David just hasn't mentioned the impeller drive built into power armor.... |
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Re: Heavy Tri-barrels | |
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by dreamrider » Sat Jun 28, 2014 11:57 pm | |
dreamrider
Posts: 1108
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Please keep in mind that to the current military planners and designers of this world, "man portable" means a weapon breaks down into loads of 25 to 60 pounds for a crew of 2 to 5 operators and assistants.
Most machine guns ever made were in some version "man-portable", including the M2 .50 (although, having humped a portion of that load, I'd say that one is pushing it.) "Man-portable" does NOT mean carried and operated by 1 man. At the least, it usually means 1 guy carries the unitary weapon as his extra load, and 1 helper carries the basic load of ammo as his extra. Some so-called "man-portable" weapons (the 81mm mortar comes to mind) might need a crew of 5-6 to hump all their components and a useful bit of ammo. "Man-portable" just means that you don't always have to have a truck or a mule or a wheeled mount to displace and implace; a small crew of determined, cursing guys can get the weapon into some nearly impossible place that the captain has his eye on. ...or one space-armored San Martino marine. <grin> dreamrider |
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