found a use for the ex-Sollie SD.

Of course the extra 60 DD and 32+ CL would be great for newly liberated worlds from the shadows. The 30+ BC could be used by I guess it depends. If they have cataphracts then Maya might need some mid sized ships? If not then the liberated might like a few BC too.

Might end up with a few new protectorates in the long run.

Lord Skimper wrote:Of course the extra 60 DD and 32+ CL would be great for newly liberated worlds from the shadows. The 30+ BC could be used by I guess it depends. If they have cataphracts then Maya might need some mid sized ships? If not then the liberated might like a few BC too.

Might end up with a few new protectorates in the long run.

As far as I have understand it, all Cataphracts were used by the Sollies during the 1st Slaughter of Manticore, because all Cataphracts were pod-based, so you have to use them or loose them. As it was intended to be by the Alignment. After all, it makes no sense for them to serve their new missiles to the GA on a silver platter - And that would have been the fact, if they had given Cataphracts to Filareta for use in the ship-based launchers.

Regarding Maya ... it depends what would be faster and cheaper: to modernize existing Solly BCs or CAs for use with Dualdrive- or Multidrive-Missiles or to build new ones from scratch - and in my humble opinion, building new vessels is by far the better choice.

Eagleeye wrote:As far as I have understand it, all Cataphracts were used by the Sollies during the 1st Slaughter of Manticore, because all Cataphracts were pod-based, so you have to use them or loose them. As it was intended to be by the Alignment. After all, it makes no sense for them to serve their new missiles to the GA on a silver platter - And that would have been the fact, if they had given Cataphracts to Filareta for use in the ship-based launchers.

They had both Cataphract-Cs in pods (with standard SLN capital missile warheads) and Cataphract-Bs in their tubes (with standard SLN cruiser missile warheads). Since both types of missiles are badly inferior to what the Mesans knew the RMN had, and the RHN was known to have a superior capital missile to a Cataphract-C, I don't think they considered giving it away to be any real risk.

Lord Skimper wrote:If they have cataphracts then Maya might need some mid sized ships? If not then the liberated might like a few BC too.

The Maya sector already gave Torch the surviving PNE ships (Havenite and Solarian types) because the new ships they're buying from Erewhon are far superior. Torch is having trouble manning more than one or two because both types are excessively manpower intensive.

IIRC, Torch chose a former RHN/PNE ship as their new Flagship over the newer Nevada Class Solarian design.

ETA textev:

Torch of Freedom
Chapter Sixty-one wrote:Queen Berry looked a little bewildered by the flag bridge of the Chao Kung Ming. The Spartacus, rather, as the government of Torch had decided to rename her.

The Sparticus isn't one of the Indefatible class Heavy Cruisers (Not Nevadas as I mis-state above) so it must be one of the Mars class Havenite Heavy Cruisers of the PNE.

Torch of Freedom
Chapter Forty-four
wrote:the People's Navy in Exile certainly acted the part. Even the names they'd assigned to the surplus Indefatigable-class battlecruisers Manpower had provided to them reflected that: Leon Trotsky, George Washington, Marquis de Lafayette, Oliver Cromwell, Thomas Paine, Mao Tse-tung, Maximilien Robespierre . . .

It may be that Torch had no choice since the BCs were Adm Rozhak's primary targets and there may not have been any surviving SLN designs.

1) I would say that it is questionable whether an SLN Nevada class BC would really be superior in to any great degree over a late model, upgraded PN/RHN Mars class. Note that the Mars masses nearly 480,000 tonnes. And Torch can actually get full modernization and a steady stream of parts for a Mars.

2) The Spartacus is almost certainly a former Mars, considering her original name. Chao Kung Ming is a Chinese mytho/quasi-historical warrior who became a god. That name is quite in keeping with the naming conventions of the Mars class, and somewhat at odds with the names that the PNE gave to the gift battlecruisers.

dreamrider

PS - What do you think that the next heavy cruiser coming out of Bolthole on a modified Mars hull be called? A Mars-inami?

dreamrider wrote:
PS - What do you think that the next heavy cruiser coming out of Bolthole on a modified Mars hull be called? A Mars-inami?

Maybe a Jupiter class, or perhaps a Deimos or Phobos class, assuming they don't just call it a Mars-E.

If the fire sale price gets low enough maybe Ganny El will buy one. Andrew Artlett is accustom to working with out of date junk and Just imagine what he could do with an entire SD to play with.

dreamrider wrote:1) I would say that it is questionable whether an SLN Nevada class BC would really be superior in to any great degree over a late model, upgraded PN/RHN Mars class.

As noted, I mis-identified the gift BCs as Nevadas instead of Indefatigables.

The Mars class Heavy Cruisers the PNE possessed were first generation and largely unmodified cruisers -- as the one (then) Capt Terekhov destroyed in Nuncio, for example. The upgrade from Heavy Cruiser to Battle Cruiser was sufficient for Commodore Luft to move his flag to Leon Trotsky from a Mars-class.

I think a Mars as stipulated -- late model and upgraded -- is probably a match for any SLN Battlecruiser when matched one on one. I'm not so sure whether that would be true after somebody competent from the Haven Sector tweaked the ECM and tactical software -- the PNE was unimpressed by Sollie software, although the hardware was adequate.

Hi Weird Harold,

The Mars Class are heavy Cruisers, the Warlords were BC's and all were destroyed along side the Indefatigables.

So the Torch navy doesn't have anything bigger to man than the surviving Mars heavy cruisers.

I wouldn't be surprised if there weren't a bunch of RHN loaners, all volunteers, enough to fill out all the former peep ships [perhaps a few thousand at most] showing up soon in Torch via the WHJ, NTM the RHN replacing those venerable ships with new and improved ones of the same class.

Since some larger freighters can carry DD's and CL's internally, I suspect we'll see some further indirect references to such tactics being used elsewhere, while the FF ships could still be Trojan horses.

L

Weird Harold wrote:

dreamrider wrote:1) I would say that it is questionable whether an SLN Nevada class BC would really be superior in to any great degree over a late model, upgraded PN/RHN Mars class.

As noted, I mis-identified the gift BCs as Nevadas instead of Indefatigables.

The Mars class Heavy Cruisers the PNE possessed were first generation and largely unmodified cruisers -- as the one (then) Capt Terekhov destroyed in Nuncio, for example. The upgrade from Heavy Cruiser to Battle Cruiser was sufficient for Commodore Luft to move his flag to Leon Trotsky from a Mars-class.

I think a Mars as stipulated -- late model and upgraded -- is probably a match for any SLN Battlecruiser when matched one on one. I'm not so sure whether that would be true after somebody competent from the Haven Sector tweaked the ECM and tactical software -- the PNE was unimpressed by Sollie software, although the hardware was adequate.

lyonheart wrote:Hi Weird Harold,

The Mars Class are heavy Cruisers, the Warlords were BC's and all were destroyed along side the Indefatigables.

So the Torch navy doesn't have anything bigger to man than the surviving Mars heavy cruisers.

I wouldn't be surprised if there weren't a bunch of RHN loaners, all volunteers, enough to fill out all the former peep ships [perhaps a few thousand at most] showing up soon in Torch via the WHJ, NTM the RHN replacing those venerable ships with new and improved ones of the same class.

Since some larger freighters can carry DD's and CL's internally, I suspect we'll see some further indirect references to such tactics being used elsewhere, while the FF ships could still be Trojan horses.

L

Yeah, that's about how I see it.

Of course, RFC has never mentioned if anyone in Torch or Haven (I think CoG mentions that Haven shipyards are updating and doing maintenance on the captured ships, IIRC) have found those MAlignment booby traps yet....