Multiple modules of same type: Stacking or overlapping?

I haven't been able to figure this out yet, but I'm hoping someone else has. If you have multiple modules of the same type (Say, a pair of bridge roll time reducers that reduce your bridge roll delay to 0.8), do they stack and reduce it to .6? Or multiply to .64? Or do they overlap and simply remain a reduction to .8?

RandomGraysuit wrote:I haven't been able to figure this out yet, but I'm hoping someone else has. If you have multiple modules of the same type (Say, a pair of bridge roll time reducers that reduce your bridge roll delay to 0.8), do they stack and reduce it to .6? Or multiply to .64? Or do they overlap and simply remain a reduction to .8?

The easier way to check would be to test using the upgrade accelerators, since you can see their effect on the time remaining.

I did that and I'm 85% sure that they stack multiplicatively; so using all 5 at once (maxed out) an upgrade take 0.469 as long. (If it was additive it'd only take 0.32 as long and even with their oddity I think I've used them enough I'd noticed that big a different)

[Edit: Just did a double check and it's multiplicative. I started upgrading my BuNine Rad Thrusters from level 9 to 10 (scheduled to take 1d:10h:54m) then immediately removed all the upgrade components. Time remaining jumped up to 2d:23h:56m. Means the five combined upgrade components reduced the time to 0.485 as long. Not quite perfectly what I expected but vastly closer to the multiplicative value]


However one of the developers (on the other forums) did say they'd checked the game code and those are applied a little unintuitively. They only affect the time required value, and have no impact on the time elapsed count. So if you had a component that would take 1 hour without them, but 45 minutes with them, and you removed the accelerators at 44 minutes the time remaining would change to 16 minutes (not 1 minute and 15 seconds). But add them back two minutes later, when the clock says 14 minutes remaining, and the upgrade would complete immediately.

That means that once an upgrade has been going for a bit they affect the time in non-obvious ways; making me slightly uncertain of what I was seeing. Guess it should be retested using a freshly started upgrade, and preferably a quite length one.

(And of course I'm assuming that all the components stack the same way; baring any bugs. But that's not necessarily a given)

Jonathan_S wrote:

RandomGraysuit wrote:(And of course I'm assuming that all the components stack the same way; baring any bugs. But that's not necessarily a given)

Considering I'm dropping 480k plasma on legendary upgrades for my light cruiser, I *really* hope they stack the same way!

Thanks for checking it out.

I can confirm that they are multiplicative.

I ran some tests last week. The first was to confirm how multiple components stacked. I used the ECM refresh time as a measure, and between 0 and 4 Photonic Computers (Purple) and 1 Hypervalent (Blue). Whether I had multiples of the same rarity or a combination, the combined effect on the refresh time was X*Y*Z.

[Data available on request. ]

Next I looked at payload enhancers vs. missile tube autoloaders to optimize damage inflicted. They again followed the expected multiplier for either property. (With some more noise in the damage inflicted due to what defenses were up.)

My numbers suggested that with 4 slots on the weapon deck, the best damage/minute was with 3 autoloaders and 1 payload enhancer. YMMV

One possible exception are the "disruptor" types of components. (The ones that look like dodecahedrons) It's been observed that there is a bug where two disruptors have less effect than one. One of the commenters on the FB page suggested that it's triggered by a counter that resets. I wouldn't suggest using more than one EMP/Laser/Weapon etc. disruptor in your build for this reason.

Here's a link to a summary table.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/90776938/TOH-SF%20Component%20Table.pdf

he ran some tests last week

Norm.bone wrote:I can confirm that they are multiplicative.

I ran some tests last week. The first was to confirm how multiple components stacked. I used the ECM refresh time as a measure, and between 0 and 4 Photonic Computers (Purple) and 1 Hypervalent (Blue). Whether I had multiples of the same rarity or a combination, the combined effect on the refresh time was X*Y*Z.

[Data available on request. ]

Next I looked at payload enhancers vs. missile tube autoloaders to optimize damage inflicted. They again followed the expected multiplier for either property. (With some more noise in the damage inflicted due to what defenses were up.)

My numbers suggested that with 4 slots on the weapon deck, the best damage/minute was with 3 autoloaders and 1 payload enhancer. YMMV

One possible exception are the "disruptor" types of components. (The ones that look like dodecahedrons) It's been observed that there is a bug where two disruptors have less effect than one. One of the commenters on the FB page suggested that it's triggered by a counter that resets. I wouldn't suggest using more than one EMP/Laser/Weapon etc. disruptor in your build for this reason.

Here's a link to a summary table.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/90776938/TOH-SF%20Component%20Table.pdf

See kids? This is what happens when you let the devil play with idle hands. This.

Good work Norm.bone thank you for the breakdown.

I do see trainers working, I've been using them. They are counter-intuitive though. They, like the upgrade speeding optimization units, change the end time of an upgrade, in relation to the start time. It does not matter how long the trainer has been installed. If you have trainers that multiply to remove 50% of the time, and have an officer upgrade that takes 4 days, wait until 2 days pass, leaving 2 days left, install the trainers, and the upgrade is done.
a fully upgraded set, should give better than 70% reduction in officer training time, I'm waiting on the last 2 upgrades to my legendary that I finally got to confirm the numbers.

Ventricles, there is also the upgrade power shunt, that is a different rarity, so both can be installed at once.

kevinrs wrote:I do see trainers working, I've been using them. They are counter-intuitive though. They, like the upgrade speeding optimization units, change the end time of an upgrade, in relation to the start time. It does not matter how long the trainer has been installed. If you have trainers that multiply to remove 50% of the time, and have an officer upgrade that takes 4 days, wait until 2 days pass, leaving 2 days left, install the trainers, and the upgrade is done.
a fully upgraded set, should give better than 70% reduction in officer training time, I'm waiting on the last 2 upgrades to my legendary that I finally got to confirm the numbers.

Ventricles, there is also the upgrade power shunt, that is a different rarity, so both can be installed at once.

A thought on these. Load them to get an idea of your new end time as stated above. Then remove to allow for other components to be used in battle or for generating resources like metal and plasma until said new time. Reinsert items, ding, fries are done. Uninstall and move to next task. Takes some shuffling around if upgrades in progress on bridge but I'm sure you'll manage.

kevinrs wrote:I do see trainers working, I've been using them. They are counter-intuitive though. They, like the upgrade speeding optimization units, change the end time of an upgrade, in relation to the start time. It does not matter how long the trainer has been installed. If you have trainers that multiply to remove 50% of the time, and have an officer upgrade that takes 4 days, wait until 2 days pass, leaving 2 days left, install the trainers, and the upgrade is done.
a fully upgraded set, should give better than 70% reduction in officer training time, I'm waiting on the last 2 upgrades to my legendary that I finally got to confirm the numbers.

Yep, the last game update fixed those trainers so they actually do something now.

And yes, like the upgrade optimization units there doesn't seem to be any reason (beyond laziness) to leave them permanently installed. Just swap them in periodically and see if that completes any upgrades / training.
Weird, but who and I to argue. (And it's probably easier to handle than having to constantly store the current time remaining; instead they can just store the time the upgrade was started and locally calculate time remaining, at the current acceleration percentage)

kevinrs wrote:
Ventricles, there is also the upgrade power shunt, that is a different rarity, so both can be installed at once.

Wow! I hadn't tried that. Yow had already noted that trainers were fixed, but I'll make this adjustment, too.

[quote="Jonathan_S"]
Yep, the last game update fixed those trainers so they actually do something now.
And yes, like the upgrade optimization units there doesn't seem to be any reason (beyond laziness) to leave them permanently installed. Just swap them in periodically and see if that completes any upgrades / training.
/quote]

I do this with my fire manifold and facilitator component. Install them when there's a fire.