Just how big is the RHN?

RHN new light unit tech:

ToF we know RHN got ERM windfall from Erewhon. But, we also know their application of said tech is not as good as the Erewhonese. Conclusion is that the RHN equivalent ERM is larger.

How much larger?

Mk-14 is 70ish tons.
MK-16 is 94ish tons.

Assume RHN MK-14 equivalent is Mk-16ish weight.

RHN got the tech in 1920. Missile development takes at least a year. New design put into production around late 1921. HV timeline is now mid 1922.

So, any new RHN build post 1922, will certainly have new tubes etc. Can we roughly assume that any DDM RMN unit tonnage and missile tube numbers etc will be a rough equivalent RHN ERM unit? Yes.

Will they have plenty of tractors for pods? Uh, yea. Nothing new there. Will they have FTL com? Yea. Bow/Stern walls? Yea. Improved compensators? Yea. Improved sidewall strength? Yea. Increased PDLC/CM numbers? Sure.

My question all along is how many new ships. Not if the new ships they do build will have new tech.

wastedfly wrote:RHN new light unit tech:

ToF we know RHN got ERM windfall from Erewhon. But, we also know their application of said tech is not as good as the Erewhonese. Conclusion is that the RHN equivalent ERM is larger.

How much larger?

Mk-14 is 70ish tons.
MK-16 is 94ish tons.

Assume RHN MK-14 equivalent is Mk-16ish weight.

RHN got the tech in 1920. Missile development takes at least a year. New design put into production around late 1921. HV timeline is now mid 1922.

So, any new RHN build post 1922, will certainly have new tubes etc. Can we roughly assume that any DDM RMN unit tonnage and missile tube numbers etc will be a rough equivalent RHN ERM unit? Yes.

Will they have plenty of tractors for pods? Uh, yea. Nothing new there. Will they have FTL com? Yea. Bow/Stern walls? Yea. Improved compensators? Yea. Improved sidewall strength? Yea. Increased PDLC/CM numbers? Sure.

My question all along is how many new ships. Not if the new ships they do build will have new tech.

I'm not certain where you got that the mk 14 is 70 tons. The abandoned as too small Mk 50 from OBS is 78 tons. From IFF, the mass of a Mk 13 cruiser weight missile is 84 tons. A Mk14 EDM is larger than a Mk 13, so it must be between 84 and 94 tons currently. The RHN version may be... larger...

Theemile wrote:
I'm not certain where you got that the mk 14 is 70 tons. The abandoned as too small Mk 50 from OBS is 78 tons. From IFF, the mass of a Mk 13 cruiser weight missile is 84 tons. A Mk14 EDM is larger than a Mk 13, so it must be between 84 and 94 tons currently. The RHN version may be... larger...

Uh, Not enough sleep?

LAC is 70 tons/missile

My reading was that the cruiser weight MK14 was the ~80ton missile.

So, if RHN ERM is now 100tons or 110 tons or whatever number comes out at 20% more massive.

Issue for total number of light units still holds.

I have always seen ship ratios for the RHN to model after the GSN to a far closer extent than the RMN. Both nations regarding naval needs correlate well whereas the needs of the RMN are quite different.

Lets look at the 1920 OOB

I think the 1920 OOB is skewed in the RHN's case. Civil war and the short end of the tech imbalance created a disproportionate need for MDM/SDP/CLAC. Now lets check my "surmising".

Lets look at ratios

GSN:
Ship type ..... Number in service not reserve
LAC ........... Unknown. THOUSANDS
DD ............ 20
CL ............ 40 .... 60
CA ............ 60
BC ............ 32
BCP ........... 40 .... 72
SD ............ 30
SDP ........... 115 ... 145
CLAC .......... 24

Ignore CLAC's as these are used offensively as fleet defense exclusive units

Ratios in crude terms DD/CL:CA:BC:SD/SDP
Roughly 1:1:1:2
Ignore SD 1:1:1:2

CLAC: SD/P = 1:6
______________________________________________________

RHN:
Ship type ..... Number in service not reserve
LAC ........... Unknown. THOUSANDS
DD ............ 66
CL ............ 110 .... 176
CA ............ 80
BC ............ 98
BCP ........... 0 .... 98
SD ............ 263
SDP ........... 318 ... 581
CLAC .......... 48

Ignore CLAC's as these are used offensively as fleet defense exclusive units

Ratios in crude terms DD/CL:CA:BC:SD/SDP
Roughly 2:1:1:6
Ignore SD 2:1:1:3

CLAC: SD/P = 1:6

If one wanted to do a VERY crude RMN ratio it would be
Roughly: 4:1:1:2

RMN: 4:1:1:2
GSN: 1:1:1:2
GHN: 2:1:1:3
________________________________________________________

So what we can conclude from these ratios is that the GSN/GHN model tracks very similarly. GSN is actually very light on light units. This makes sense. Haven has far more systems and far more merchant marine along with far more transsteller operations than the single polity, barely out of the dark ages, Grayson.

PS. What I am honestly rather puzzled by is; why the Andies are so darned BIG. If we go by the OOB, the Andermani empire should be nearly the exact size as Haven if we assumed the number of ships correlates to per capita. The books certainly do not give this impression.

PPS. Need to modify the numbers and ratios per HoS and then try and correlate RHN unit build numbers.

J6P wrote:PS. What I am honestly rather puzzled by is; why the Andies are so darned BIG.

The Andie Military/Navy is so big because the Empire started as a Mercenary Fleet. Culturally, the Andermani place a lot of importance on military service and capability.

Weird Harold wrote:The Andie Military/Navy is so big because the Empire started as a Mercenary Fleet. Culturally, the Andermani place a lot of importance on military service and capability.

Haven has an economy crippled by a century plus of poor decision making and a badly damaged educational system. The AE does not.

kzt wrote:

Weird Harold wrote:The Andie Military/Navy is so big because the Empire started as a Mercenary Fleet. Culturally, the Andermani place a lot of importance on military service and capability.

Haven has an economy crippled by a century plus of poor decision making and a badly damaged educational system. The AE does not.

Both good points.

Says, the Andies were just bidding their time waiting for Manticore to bite a large enough chunk allowing them to conquer the whole kaboodle by sweeping up the pieces.

200+ SD on a non war footing? Hmmm

J6P wrote:200+ SD on a non war footing? Hmmm

I don't think the Andermani Empire is ever on a "non-war" footing. They have traditionally expanded by conquest and only paused long enough to digest the latest conquest before looking for a new target. They stayed neutral in Manticore's during Manticore's wars with Haven but continued a high readiness state waiting for their chance at Silesia.

The Andermani are basically benevolent Conquistadors, and they don't need to conquer as the PRH did, but anyone who forgets that they are at heart Conquistadors is probably going to join their empire.

Weird Harold wrote:

J6P wrote:200+ SD on a non war footing? Hmmm

I don't think the Andermani Empire is ever on a "non-war" footing. They have traditionally expanded by conquest and only paused long enough to digest the latest conquest before looking for a new target. They stayed neutral in Manticore's during Manticore's wars with Haven but continued a high readiness state waiting for their chance at Silesia.

The Andermani are basically benevolent Conquistadors, and they don't need to conquer as the PRH did, but anyone who forgets that they are at heart Conquistadors is probably going to join their empire.

Which means that politely pointing them in the direction of a number of ex-Solarian worlds in the opposite direction from the Grand Alliance's territory might be a good idea...

roseandheather wrote:Which means that politely pointing them in the direction of a number of ex-Solarian worlds in the opposite direction from the Grand Alliance's territory might be a good idea...

I don't think they'll require much pointing, but the reason they aren't in the GA is so they will be free to target the MAlign without worrying about the SLN.

They'll be in Digesting Mode with their new Silesian acquisitions, anyway.