House of Lies/Honorverse Companion 2

Will the line art stay accurate this time? Assuming there is any. Can we see any of the ships in multiple perspectives this time? If any. Side top down bottom up end on...

Will future books be based on the movie comics art or the book descriptions?

Questions questions always questions...

Hi Wasted Fly,

I've done it different ways, dropping the last 23 'Bellerophon's etc and no they don't.

The first 121 of HoS total 772.517,250 ton or over 11.239% more than the appendix tonnages which was used for gross and fine comparisons with the peeps and references to FF out-massing the whole RMN etc.

As I said before the lack of charts in HoS would probably have highlighted the glaring differences.

L

wastedfly wrote:

wastedfly wrote:Lyon, shouldn't be annoyed that the SVW appendix error listing the Ad-Astra BB class as DN's, was promulgated into HoS?

Ah, Lyon, it seems my grammar took a major strike.

It should have said: Lyon, shouldn't *you* be annoyed that the SVW error listing the Ad-Astra BB class as DN's...

Sorry.

Clearly the Ad Astra's are not DN's. At least I do not think so. Seems we agree on that point.

Will try and run the numbers from HoS into Excel, subtract the extra Bellerphon's built after the 1905 chart and see if the numbers come out. I would be rather surprised if they do not actually.

lyonheart wrote:Hi Wasted Fly,

I've done it different ways, dropping the last 23 'Bellerophon's etc and no they don't.

Yup. Got the same.

Maybe he needed the DN's to be more massive for some battles. Got me.

Maybe there where more then just some Bellerophon's under construction at that point.

That said, while I could accept BB's being in the RMN OOB at the start of the build up, them still being in it once the war actually starts makes no sense in light of what is said in SVW

SCC wrote:Maybe there where more then just some Bellerophon's under construction at that point.

That said, while I could accept BB's being in the RMN OOB at the start of the build up, them still being in it once the war actually starts makes no sense in light of what is said in SVW

Have to eliminate a lot of DN's to make the numbers come out. I personally went with the DN's effectively became everyone else's SD's. You will note that the RMN DN's are effectively the same tonnage as the SLN's SD's in later books.

Anyways, I am done with this NIT subject. Oh wait, why else are we on this forum? Warm fuzzies and NIT'ing, thats what!

wastedfly wrote:Have to eliminate a lot of DN's to make the numbers come out. I personally went with the DN's effectively became everyone else's SD's. You will note that the RMN DN's are effectively the same tonnage as the SLN's SD's in later books.

Anyways, I am done with this NIT subject. Oh wait, why else are we on this forum? Warm fuzzies and NIT'ing, thats what!

Maybe MMW mucked up like he did with the LAC Fission plants and forgot to update the part of the bible that the table in SVW used when he changed the average tonnages

lyonheart wrote:Hi Wasted Fly,

I've done it different ways, dropping the last 23 'Bellerophon's etc and no they don't.

The first 121 of HoS total 772.517,250 ton or over 11.239% more than the appendix tonnages which was used for gross and fine comparisons with the peeps and references to FF out-massing the whole RMN etc.

As I said before the lack of charts in HoS would probably have highlighted the glaring differences.

L

May I suggest that some dreadnoughts were taken out of service before the war started? It does happen.

SCC wrote:

wastedfly wrote:Have to eliminate a lot of DN's to make the numbers come out. I personally went with the DN's effectively became everyone else's SD's. You will note that the RMN DN's are effectively the same tonnage as the SLN's SD's in later books.

Anyways, I am done with this NIT subject. Oh wait, why else are we on this forum? Warm fuzzies and NIT'ing, thats what!

Maybe MMW mucked up like he did with the LAC Fission plants and forgot to update the part of the bible that the table in SVW used when he changed the average tonnages

Those # on the original Fleet chart never made sense. I can understand a few older ships weighing down the mass of a class, but the Manty average SD mass was 7.08 M tons and the PRH was 6.8 - at a time when an SD was supposed to be in the 7-8.5 Mton range. According to this 50 % of the Manty SD Lineup was officially DNs and >50% of the PRHs were the same. The DN #s made more sense, but their averages were 5.7 Mtons for the Manties and 5.4 for the PRH. - still falling in the 5-7 Mton bracket, but extremely low.

The chart falls apart on the other side as well. The average Manty DD was 70Ktons, and the average PRH DD was 64 Ktons - so over 50% of the ships listed as DDs for both navies were actually Frigates!

Hi Theemile,

The appendix in TSVW was based on different assumptions from 20+ years ago, before Eric Flint's 'From The Highlands' changed and accelerated the honorverse dynamic, so rather than the recent build up in HoS, it postulated ships built over a much longer time, with much less sudden technical improvement until the war.

According to posts at the bar, the numbers of peep ships went up from ~1944 to 2106 when a ~20% margin wasn't enough, but it fit very well.

I at least spent a lot of time figuring with it.

L

Theemile wrote:

SCC wrote:**quote="wastedfly"**Have to eliminate a lot of DN's to make the numbers come out. I personally went with the DN's effectively became everyone else's SD's. You will note that the RMN DN's are effectively the same tonnage as the SLN's SD's in later books.

Anyways, I am done with this NIT subject. Oh wait, why else are we on this forum? Warm fuzzies and NIT'ing, thats what!**/quote**
Maybe MMW mucked up like he did with the LAC Fission plants and forgot to update the part of the bible that the table in SVW used when he changed the average tonnages

Those # on the original Fleet chart never made sense. I can understand a few older ships weighing down the mass of a class, but the Manty average SD mass was 7.08 M tons and the PRH was 6.8 - at a time when an SD was supposed to be in the 7-8.5 Mton range. According to this 50 % of the Manty SD Lineup was officially DNs and >50% of the PRHs were the same. The DN #s made more sense, but their averages were 5.7 Mtons for the Manties and 5.4 for the PRH. - still falling in the 5-7 Mton bracket, but extremely low.

The chart falls apart on the other side as well. The average Manty DD was 70Ktons, and the average PRH DD was 64 Ktons - so over 50% of the ships listed as DDs for both navies were actually Frigates!

Lord Skimper wrote:Can we see any of the ships in multiple perspectives this time? If any. Side top down bottom up end on...

I'd like that too.

Mike.