Reaction to Gbabba reveal

Lyonheart wrote:

"Several including me have stated the CoGA powers can't let the alliance continue to extend their technological lead nor their obvious democratic and cultural challenges to the old established order be unmet, so sooner than later they will renew the war; probably under the guise of a religious crusade to rescue the temple, again with catastrophic results for them."

One wonders what they are going to do about it. Are they going to start to innovate? Putting Charis under pressure to innovate further with another war doesn't seem to me to advance their goals. Presumably Clyntahn will soon be toast, so maybe that will make it easier for the COGA powers to begin adjusting.

By the way, Don is fine. n7axw is my amateur radio call which I have had for over 35 years and of which I am inordinately proud so I tend to sport it everywhere. Listen for me working the world on 20 meters!

Don

One suspects that they will negotiate a peace before the ICA occupies Zion. Give the reformers their autonomy and Clyntahn's head on a platter. Give up the Border Kingdoms and Silkiah if they have to. So long as they keep their access to the Gulf of Dohlar, the CoGA can use the resources of Howard and West Haven. Can anyone say Cold War arms race? What better way to disseminate a mindset of innovation? If Duchairn offers, I doubt Charis can refuse.

n7axw wrote:Lyonheart wrote:

"Several including me have stated the CoGA powers can't let the alliance continue to extend their technological lead nor their obvious democratic and cultural challenges to the old established order be unmet, so sooner than later they will renew the war; probably under the guise of a religious crusade to rescue the temple, again with catastrophic results for them."

One wonders what they are going to do about it. Are they going to start to innovate? Putting Charis under pressure to innovate further with another war doesn't seem to me to advance their goals. Presumably Clyntahn will soon be toast, so maybe that will make it easier for the COGA powers to begin adjusting.

By the way, Don is fine. n7axw is my amateur radio call which I have had for over 35 years and of which I am inordinately proud so I tend to sport it everywhere. Listen for me working the world on 20 meters!

Don

I've posted this here before.

Some whack job group of humans will probably come up with the idea that the Ghbaba are on God's side and will deliberately seek them out to warn them the humans are coming and tell them where Safehold is.

They will most likely do this before Safehold is ready to fight the Ghbaba.

BarryKirk wrote:I've posted this here before.

Some whack job group of humans will probably come up with the idea that the Ghbaba are on God's side and will deliberately seek them out to warn them the humans are coming and tell them where Safehold is.

They will most likely do this before Safehold is ready to fight the Ghbaba.

I suppose that it could happen, but it doesn't seem to me to be the way that RFC tells his stories....what a way to piss off his fans--wiping the human race as the dramatic conclusion to the story!

Don

n7axw wrote:
I suppose that it could happen, but it doesn't seem to me to be the way that RFC tells his stories....what a way to piss off his fans--wiping the human race as the dramatic conclusion to the story!

Don

But if a group takes Langhorne's Writ as a base and retains it through Safehold's preparations agains the Gbaba, they might conclude that the Gbaba are indeed God's instrument to destroy all those that discard His salvation as revealed to Langhorne. RFC will take such a realistic mindset and use it to make the story much more exciting.

Suppose such a group manages to reach the Gbaba before humanity has an unassailable superiority. They fight with the final outcome very much in doubt. Would RFC pull something like that? Absolutely!

BarryKirk wrote:I've posted this here before.

Some whack job group of humans will probably come up with the idea that the Ghbaba are on God's side and will deliberately seek them out to warn them the humans are coming and tell them where Safehold is.

They will most likely do this before Safehold is ready to fight the Ghbaba.

That would be different, but a bit difficult to pull off. First, it assumes that these renegade humans would actually be able to communicate with the Gbaba, which they have never shown any desire of doing. I suppose that they could simply lead the Gbaba to Safehold. But they would have to keep far enough ahead to lead them much of the way. That implies that the renegades (and Safehold) would already have Federation-level technology.

It would probably be too late for the Gbaba to stop Safehold. Either the renegades would be able to keep ahead of the Gbaba and lead them all the way (which means they are already ahead of Federation technology), or the renegades only manage to lead the Gbaba part-way (which means the Gbaba will have to take years to search all the stars in that approximate direction until they find Safehold). The journey to Safehold took years. By the time the Gbaba could get to Safehold, they would have advanced significantly beyond Federation technology.

Hi PeterZ,

What good is keeping access to the Gulf of Dohlar when the ICN is blockading Howard, and West Haven is controlled if not part of the republic and the alliance?

Getting the CoGA countries into the mindset of innovating is Merlin's goal, but the next war I'm projecting will be by the remaining anti-innovating NTM reactionary leadership to attempt to at least restore the temple and it's religious domination using far larger forces which they expect to be overwhelming.

I expect what happens is not what they hope.

If Duchairn does succeed against Clyntahn, what can he offer to the alliance advancing to the temple [if they don't take it which I think BGV easily will] except a perpetual military presence to protect future reformer pilgrims and access to the THING IN THE BASEMENT that he doesn't know about?

L

PeterZ wrote:One suspects that they will negotiate a peace before the ICA occupies Zion. Give the reformers their autonomy and Clyntahn's head on a platter. Give up the Border Kingdoms and Silkiah if they have to. So long as they keep their access to the Gulf of Dohlar, the CoGA can use the resources of Howard and West Haven. Can anyone say Cold War arms race? What better way to disseminate a mindset of innovation? If Duchairn offers, I doubt Charis can refuse.

n7axw wrote:Lyonheart wrote:

"Several including me have stated the CoGA powers can't let the alliance continue to extend their technological lead nor their obvious democratic and cultural challenges to the old established order be unmet, so sooner than later they will renew the war; probably under the guise of a religious crusade to rescue the temple, again with catastrophic results for them."

One wonders what they are going to do about it. Are they going to start to innovate? Putting Charis under pressure to innovate further with another war doesn't seem to me to advance their goals. Presumably Clyntahn will soon be toast, so maybe that will make it easier for the COGA powers to begin adjusting.

By the way, Don is fine. n7axw is my amateur radio call which I have had for over 35 years and of which I am inordinately proud so I tend to sport it everywhere. Listen for me working the world on 20 meters!

Don

PeterZ wrote:

n7axw wrote:
I suppose that it could happen, but it doesn't seem to me to be the way that RFC tells his stories....what a way to piss off his fans--wiping the human race as the dramatic conclusion to the story!

Don

But if a group takes Langhorne's Writ as a base and retains it through Safehold's preparations agains the Gbaba, they might conclude that the Gbaba are indeed God's instrument to destroy all those that discard His salvation as revealed to Langhorne. RFC will take such a realistic mindset and use it to make the story much more exciting.

Suppose such a group manages to reach the Gbaba before humanity has an unassailable superiority. They fight with the final outcome very much in doubt. Would RFC pull something like that? Absolutely!

The closest I've seen him come was with "Apocalypse Troll" and that one could have gone the wrong way right at the start, but otherwise didn't seem all that close.

Don

n7axw wrote:
The closest I've seen him come was with "Apocalypse Troll" and that one could have gone the wrong way right at the start, but otherwise didn't seem all that close.

Don

You misunderstand. RFC won't write about hopelessness. He will use hopelessness as part of the tension generating plot devices. Would he use someone with a powerful faith in a warped religion? He has already done that and would do so again to tell a riveting story.

Duchairn will offer the terms Charis has been seeking publically. Religious autonomy within their nations, I assume access to Zion without fear of persecution for ANY pilgrim and reforming the practices that led to Clyntahn to begin with. Paying war damages to Siddermark would be high up there. I doubt that Siddermark will join the Church of Charis, but won't rejoin the CoGA any time soon.

The key driver for Cayleb et al would be initiating a cold war without risking waking the Temple Sleepers. Gaining control of the Temple might just do that. Getting Father Patyr in the Temple might also awaken the Sleepers. No one knows what the Key does and OWL can't decrypt it without destroying their entire device or himself.

So continuing the war to gain access to the Temple might cause the Sleepers to awaken and destroy Charis. Are the chances large, who knows? Why risk it. Keep the military pressure up and hope that Clyntahn gets the chop before they ahve to actually occupy Zion. Once Duchairn whacks Clyntahn and offers a truce, take it and insist on all the conditions they have been publically seeking.

Both sides will know a cold war will happen but that's better than fighting and killing immediately. As I said ealier, a cold war will foster innovation as fast if not faster than a hot war. By the time the sleepers awaken on schedule, innovations will have spread quite far. Sure there will be luddites, but they will have folks on their own side arguing against their position.

lyonheart wrote:Hi PeterZ,
What good is keeping access to the Gulf of Dohlar when the ICN is blockading Howard, and West Haven is controlled if not part of the republic and the alliance?

Getting the CoGA countries into the mindset of innovating is Merlin's goal, but the next war I'm projecting will be by the remaining anti-innovating NTM reactionary leadership to attempt to at least restore the temple and it's religious domination using far larger forces which they expect to be overwhelming.

I expect what happens is not what they hope.

If Duchairn does succeed against Clyntahn, what can he offer to the alliance advancing to the temple [if they don't take it which I think BGV easily will] except a perpetual military presence to protect future reformer pilgrims and access to the THING IN THE BASEMENT that he doesn't know about?

L