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Re: House of Lies/Honorverse Companion 2 | |
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by wastedfly » Sun Jun 15, 2014 2:30 am | |
wastedfly
Posts: 832
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Lyon, shouldn't be annoyed that the SVW appendix error listing the Ad-Astra BB class as DN's, was promulgated into HoS?
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Re: House of Lies/Honorverse Companion 2 | |
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by lyonheart » Sun Jun 15, 2014 3:40 am | |
lyonheart
Posts: 4853
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Hi WastedFly,
Obviously we've all changed over the past 20 years, and RFC's vision of the honorverse has changed as the pearls etc attest, but to me the original is so darn good it stands the test of time in effect in my opinion. So I'm just very curious what had to be changed and why. I thought it was obvious from my FIE reference that I knew the reference regarding the continued production of the Bellerophon class in HoS, though in the appendix its tonnage is 6,750,495 tons, or all but 5 tons of what the Majestic's is in HoS. If you're curious, the total RMN tonnage for the 121 DN's was 694.3 M tons or an average of 5,738,165 tons; or ~1.337% less than the Royal Winton class. In FIE we learned the RMN had only 18 of the wall under construction when the war began, and discussion and previous posts by RFC at the bar indicated most were SD's, and those were the last of the DN's because the reasons the RMN had to scrimp no longer applied, NTM the slight building time advantage wasn't worth all the class limitations. So building 23 more over the next 5 war years seems more than a few for a slow rate to me. Although that brings up the question of where the Gladiator class DN's came from before HoS. Now I think I recall a reference in HAE that SD's and DN's were being built in every slip possible; but that brings up the odds that the older building slips were too small for such huge ships, so they should have been available at least for CA, CL and DD construction. I got into trouble at the bar almost 8 years ago for suggesting the likely numbers of such slips available on Vulcan, Hephaestus, and Weyand, as well as extrapolating build times for CL's, CA's and BC's, given what RFC had related in his shipbuilding pearls, partly because I didn't believe the shipyards were in line with the space station's axis but perpendicular nor just one, but at least a pair above and below the long axis. Having to dig up all the textev conflicts was a major reason for not bringing this up, but they are still there [remember Galileo] so newbies will ask about the anomalies; though encouraging people to reread the early textev [however enjoyable] to find them all I believe, would not be conducive to making RFC or Bu9 happy. Probably bordering on TWTSNBN territory. I'll see you all on Monday and have a good night and tomorrow. L
Any snippet or post from RFC is good if not great!
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Re: House of Lies/Honorverse Companion 2 | |
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by wastedfly » Sun Jun 15, 2014 4:12 am | |
wastedfly
Posts: 832
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So, I shouldn't have skipped SVW, FiD, and FIE last time I reread eh? |
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Re: House of Lies/Honorverse Companion 2 | |
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by Michael Everett » Sun Jun 15, 2014 6:25 am | |
Michael Everett
Posts: 2619
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Bolding mine. Wow, I knew you spent ages on it, but 200 years? As a (very) amateur writer, I know just how easy it is to let things slip through without noticing them, only for them to rise up and bite you in the @$$ later, totally derailing your plans. As a full time writer working on multiple universes, the issues facing you must be several orders of magnitude higher, leaving me quite amazed that there are so few such continuity errors. IMHO, what matters the most is that it's a darn good read. Most errors can be overlooked given that (not that there are that many...) Looking forwards to your next book! ~~~~~~
I can't write anywhere near as well as Weber But I try nonetheless, And even do my own artwork. (Now on Twitter)and mentioned by RFC! ACNH Dreams at DA-6594-0940-7995 |
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Re: House of Lies/Honorverse Companion 2 | |
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by jgnfld » Sun Jun 15, 2014 6:40 am | |
jgnfld
Posts: 468
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In the wise words of Ray Bradbury... A few years back, one dreadful boy ran up to me and said, “Mr. Bradbury?” “Yes?” I said. “That book of yours, The Martian Chronicles?” he said. “Yes,” I said. “On page 92 where you have the moons of Mars rising in the east?” “Yeah,” I said. “Nah,” he said. So I hit him. I’ll be damned if I’ll be bullied by bright children. |
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Re: House of Lies/Honorverse Companion 2 | |
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by n7axw » Sun Jun 15, 2014 2:25 pm | |
n7axw
Posts: 5997
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IIRC, Honor had DNs under her command at Marsh. Janecek gave her every single DN the RMN still had in service! I think it was eleven of them. So they were in service beyond 1913. Don When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: House of Lies/Honorverse Companion 2 | |
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by dreamrider » Mon Jun 16, 2014 4:36 am | |
dreamrider
Posts: 1108
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HoS identifies the Majestics in service to 1918 (class of 40 ships total), the Gladiators until 1920 (class of 34 ships), and the Bellerophons until 1921 (class of 38).
Nobody said that the remaining 11 DNs at Sidemore were Ad Astras or Royal Wintons. dreamrider |
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Re: House of Lies/Honorverse Companion 2 | |
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by wastedfly » Mon Jun 16, 2014 10:32 am | |
wastedfly
Posts: 832
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There is no FiE reference. I just got done reading it. Your memory is skewed I believe. |
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Re: House of Lies/Honorverse Companion 2 | |
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by lyonheart » Mon Jun 16, 2014 9:25 pm | |
lyonheart
Posts: 4853
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Hi WastedFly,
I'm surprised and sorry my first attempt to respond Saturday night apparently failed but I think this was the gist. I'm not sure if you mean I shouldn't be annoyed or we shouldn't, but regardless you've made an interesting and diplomatic proposition to attempt to bridge the gap, for which I thank you very much. However it violates all the textev including King Roger III in HoS that the RMN didn't have BB's, at least by the time of the impending Havenite wars. One of the great qualities and attractions of the honorverse is how well it holds together, and so far there's been no rational explanation I can see of why the early textev including the SVW appendix has to be changed. After all the reason we all got hooked was how well it all hangs together, right? I suspect David had considerable notes on the early honorverse, and whether the likely diskettes etc are still readable may be part of the problem, I don't know, but my initial impression of the tech bible to be published was it just going to be the early stuff. Now since the Bellerophon class from the appendix was over a million tons more than the DN average, the bottom DN class of a similar number might mass around 4,725,538 tons; though both numbers and tonnage can be varied of course, and I hoped for further clarity in HoS. For example the classes imply there might have been 9 DN classes roughly set at 250,000 ton intervals between 4,750,000 and 6,750,000 tons. Granted that 4.725 MT class was rather too close to the peep 4.5 MT BB's, which being missile heavy might have been too much for such ancient DN's. OTOH, the figures of 18 such DN's could be swapped out for 17 5 MT DN's, although to fit the 694.3 MT for RMN DN's, the number of 5 MT DN's is probably more than that[I've done it a couple of different ways], though the number of classes might be as few as 5 at half million ton intervals save the Bellerophon's, which was possibly set between the 7 MT [7.013297.8 MT] RMN SD average and the previous 6.5 MT DN, as a compromise between what the RMN needed and what would pass Parliament. All speculation on my part of course, but it attempted to explain all the textev data points I knew of. I've checked HAE again and can't find the early reference to the RMN building all the SD's and DN's it can. Maybe it's a pearl or RFC post I'm thinking of that compared the relative merits of DN's versus SD's and why the RMN stopped building them because they were too vulnerable and literally too expensive in terms or crew casualties when the RMN was no limited by pre-war budgets. All the best, L [quote="wastedfly"]Lyon, shouldn't be annoyed that the SVW appendix error listing the Ad-Astra BB class as DN's, was promulgated into HoS?[/quote] Last edited by lyonheart on Mon Jun 16, 2014 11:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Any snippet or post from RFC is good if not great!
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Re: House of Lies/Honorverse Companion 2 | |
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by wastedfly » Mon Jun 16, 2014 9:46 pm | |
wastedfly
Posts: 832
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Ah, Lyon, it seems my grammar took a major strike. It should have said: Lyon, shouldn't *you* be annoyed that the SVW error listing the Ad-Astra BB class as DN's... Sorry. Clearly the Ad Astra's are not DN's. At least I do not think so. Seems we agree on that point. Will try and run the numbers from HoS into Excel, subtract the extra Bellerphon's built after the 1905 chart and see if the numbers come out. I would be rather surprised if they do not actually. |
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