CLYNTAHN’S FATE

munroburton wrote:
...Gruesome ends do happen to Weber's villains occasionally - the example I thought of was Brigadier Tresca, Warden of Cerberus. Dismembered by his slaves, wasn't he?

Alas, one can only hope!!!

lyonheart wrote:Hi ElaineofShalott,

Welcome to the forums, enjoy your favorite simulated beverage on the simulated roof.

Clyntahn has carefully kept the army far away from Zion, to prevent any military coup, so expecting Maigwair to be the key for that is assuming way too much.

Magwair might be more influential with the Temple Guard, but past threads give Duchairn his own links into them.

L

elaineofshalott wrote:What about Allayn Magwair finally getting tired of being treated like a puppet? Personally I think if Duchairn was going to actually carry out a coup he would have done it by now. On the otherhand Magwair now commands a real army and there is some evidence he is getting tired of being lied to and treated like an idiot.

Thanks for the welcome. As the battle moves closer to Zion the army will inevitably have to get closer there as well. I guess I feel like Clyntahn is watching Duchairn closely, expecting betrayal from that quarter. It just feels to me like everyone is still underestimating Magwair and since it would be unexpected Magwair is more likely to succeed.

=2014/06/14=
Hi Guys

I wonder if the rest of the Group Of Four would be more motivated to get rid of Clyntahn if they each received a copy of Mab's letter to the "Grand Fornicator" ??

Or even if EVERY Vicar received a copy ??

After all, if the letter received such wide circulation the vicars would have to become more aware of the damage being caused to their precious Church !!

?? Comments ??

R
.

IMO it isn't a matter of "motivation to get rid of Clyntahn".

It's a matter of "can we succeed in removing him?", "what happens if our attempt fails", and/or "who will take his place if we succeed in removing him".

David Weber has made it clear, both in the books & here, that Clyntahn has plenty of followers within the Inquisition (most of which are men he put in high positions within the Inquisition).

Basically if Clyntahn "just drop dead", there are people within the Inquisition who could take over his position.

We know that Clyntahn and Rayno have "black-mail" info on a good number of the Vicars.

So if Rayno is still around, he could get a "second" Clyntahn elected Grand Inquisitor even without cheating.

For that matter, I'm sure that many Vicars would worry that a vote against a "second" Clyntahn would be "repaid" if the second Clyntahn managed to win.

I don't know how (or if) Clyntahn goes down but the Inquisition could still be a problem without a purging of the current Inquisition.

kbus888 wrote:=2014/06/14=
Hi Guys

I wonder if the rest of the Group Of Four would be more motivated to get rid of Clyntahn if they each received a copy of Mab's letter to the "Grand Fornicator" ??

Or even if EVERY Vicar received a copy ??

After all, if the letter received such wide circulation the vicars would have to become more aware of the damage being caused to their precious Church !!

?? Comments ??

R
.

Hello Drak!

Excellent points as always, so kudos again!

Anyone remember the arguments against killing Hitler or Stalin because the fear of somebody far worse taking over?

Which was the point behind Heydrich's assassination as I recall.

These points have been made before, but I suspect they'll be brought up in Merlin and Aivah's conversation that we're desperately waiting for more snippets from.

L

DrakBibliophile wrote:IMO it isn't a matter of "motivation to get rid of Clyntahn".

It's a matter of "can we succeed in removing him?", "what happens if our attempt fails", and/or "who will take his place if we succeed in removing him".

David Weber has made it clear, both in the books & here, that Clyntahn has plenty of followers within the Inquisition (most of which are men he put in high positions within the Inquisition).

Basically if Clyntahn "just drop dead", there are people within the Inquisition who could take over his position.

We know that Clyntahn and Rayno have "black-mail" info on a good number of the Vicars.

So if Rayno is still around, he could get a "second" Clyntahn elected Grand Inquisitor even without cheating.

For that matter, I'm sure that many Vicars would worry that a vote against a "second" Clyntahn would be "repaid" if the second Clyntahn managed to win.

I don't know how (or if) Clyntahn goes down but the Inquisition could still be a problem without a purging of the current Inquisition.

kbus888 wrote:=2014/06/14=
Hi Guys

I wonder if the rest of the Group Of Four would be more motivated to get rid of Clyntahn if they each received a copy of Mab's letter to the "Grand Fornicator" ??

Or even if EVERY Vicar received a copy ??

After all, if the letter received such wide circulation the vicars would have to become more aware of the damage being caused to their precious Church !!

?? Comments ??

R
.

The results of predicting what happens when the big man is killed, assasinated or even just dies can be unpredictable. Who could have predicted Khrushev being a more mellow leader than Stalin, yet he was even though that was not immediately obvious in the West.

Or think of Saddam Hussein. I know that it never occurred to me that he was sitting on a rather explosive mix of Shia, Sunnis and Kurds prior to his removal. He was a bloody tyrant holding things together by terror, yet is Iraq a safer place for its people now?

As for Clyntahn, getting rid of him may turn out to be the easy part. How hard will it be to bring down the inquistion, embedded as it is in thousands upon thousands of cities and small towns across the face of Safehold enforcing an orthodoxy that most Safeholdens embrace? If there are to be wars following the fall of Zion, I bet it will be elements of the inquisition that instigates them.

Don

lyonheart wrote:Hello Drak!

Excellent points as always, so kudos again!

Anyone remember the arguments against killing Hitler or Stalin because the fear of somebody far worse taking over?

Which was the point behind Heydrich's assassination as I recall.

These points have been made before, but I suspect they'll be brought up in Merlin and Aivah's conversation that we're desperately waiting for more snippets from.

L

In the case of Hitler, I believe it became more a case of what if someone competent might take over.

AirTech wrote:... a case of what if someone competent might take over.

Like Heydrich as mentioned above.
Now that was one bad Nazi, ruthless,capable, and efficient. Probably why the allies sanctioned a hit on him.
I can see DW modeling his St. Just after him.

Arol wrote:

AirTech wrote:... a case of what if someone competent might take over.

Like Heydrich as mentioned above.
Now that was one bad Nazi, ruthless,capable, and efficient. Probably why the allies sanctioned a hit on him.
I can see DW modeling his St. Just after him.

St. Just was more like Eichmann IMO the head clerk stay in the shadows guy. He served Robert Pierre; named for Robes Pierre of the French Revolution another big nasty from the past.

Poker

Arol wrote:

AirTech wrote:... a case of what if someone competent might take over.

Like Heydrich as mentioned above.
Now that was one bad Nazi, ruthless,capable, and efficient. Probably why the allies sanctioned a hit on him.
I can see DW modeling his St. Just after him.

St Just is modeled after Louis Antoine de St. Just, who started with big commitement on the left field (he is the main force behind the French Declaration of Rights of the Citizen) but later, after being a ruthless and intransigeant commissary of the revolutionary armies, was the main architect of the "Reign of Terror", even more than de Robespierre (it is a single last name, the surname is Maximilien Marie Isidore) to the point his nickname was the "Angel of Death".

In fact, the whole Haven setup is a shotout of revolution era France, and you can bet that almost any name, be it a place, a person or a ship is a reference.