POW question

=2014/06/10=
Hi Lyonheart

I agree with your points.

But since the end of OAR, the allies have surely captured more POW's.

I realize we have no firm numbers and details in LAMA but there must be a goodly number of ex-COGA troups who were collected (the ones that were wounded and/or ill come to mind) and when once treated by the allied healers and back on their feet could be made to work for their rations - - -

??Comments??

R
.

EDIT 2 times for spelling

kbus888 wrote:=2014/06/10=
Hi Lyonheart

I agree with your points.

But since the end of OAR, the allies have surely captured more POW's.

I realize we have no firm numbers and details in LAMA but there must be a goodly number of ex-COGA troups who were collected (the ones that were wounded and/or ill come to mind) and when once treated by the allied healers and back on their feet could be made to work for their rations - - -

??Comments??

R
.

EDIT 2 times for spelling

In our universe, I think it is against the laws of war to force pows to work. I don't know if this apples on Safehold.

I think that the biggest pow haul in the war so far was the sea battle of the Marchovian Sea in which IIRC, some 60000 pows were taken.

Don

Hi N7AXW,

Where did you get that idea?

POW labor has been around for centuries with all sorts of rules confirmed by the Hague.

There was quite a bit of POW farm labor here and in Canada etc in WW2, besides the axis doing the same plus mining and even some manufacturing.

Safehold OTOH, aside from the prison hulks mentioned in HFaF, we haven't seen the naval POW's being used to even grow their own food on islands in Howell Bay etc.

I don't think the EoC can afford the shipping to bring them all to Silverlode or anywhere else in the empire, though taking some in now empty ships wherever the ships are returning might help divide them up, but Siddarmark's need for labor is far greater in my opinion.

L

n7axw wrote:

kbus888 wrote:=2014/06/10=
Hi Lyonheart

I agree with your points.

But since the end of OAR, the allies have surely captured more POW's.

I realize we have no firm numbers and details in LAMA but there must be a goodly number of ex-COGA troups who were collected (the ones that were wounded and/or ill come to mind) and when once treated by the allied healers and back on their feet could be made to work for their rations - - -

??Comments??

R
.

EDIT 2 times for spelling

In our universe, I think it is against the laws of war to force pows to work. I don't know if this apples on Safehold.

I think that the biggest pow haul in the war so far was the sea battle of the Marchovian Sea in which IIRC, some 60000 pows were taken.

Don

Hi Lyonheart,

Frankly, I am not quite sure of my source on that one. But I do know that German pows worked on American farms during WW2... I don't think I am completely out to lunch here. But could it be that what is being described as being a difference between labor that is rendered willingly and compensated and forced labor. I'm really not sure on this one. All I can say is that it came from somewhere and somehow got buried in the deep recesses of my mind-- for what it is worth and what there is of it!!

Don

n7axw wrote:Hi Lyonheart,

Frankly, I am not quite sure of my source on that one. But I do know that German pows worked on American farms during WW2... I don't think I am completely out to lunch here. But could it be that what is being described as being a difference between labor that is rendered willingly and compensated and forced labor. I'm really not sure on this one. All I can say is that it came from somewhere and somehow got buried in the deep recesses of my mind-- for what it is worth and what there is of it!!

Don

During WWII German, Italian and Japanese POWs worked on US farms and in manufacturing that was non-war related like building furniture or in lumber mills or camp kitchens. IIRC they were paid wages equal to what US military personnel earned for the appropriate rank with no additional bonus or extra pay. IIRC they were so well fed that they were sending back or refusing (asking that they be sent to there families in Germany) their Red Cross care packages.

There are some problems with making the prisoners work, specific to this war.

As long as they believe that the heretics are enemies of God they are not going to willingly cooperate. That means they will have to be carefully watched and their work checked to make sure there is no sabotage.

The guards have to be not only able but willing to force the unwilling prisoners to do the work. And we all know the Inner Circle would never allow their people to torture and kill prisoners, so they can't use the methods the Inquisition uses in their prisoner camps.

Some people have mentioned paying the prisoners for working, but a religious fanatic isn't going to want money from evil demon worshippers.

You need to start by teaching the prisoners that the Church is wrong, but that is going to be almost impossible.

=2014/06/12=
Possible solution to motivating POW's to work.

Upon wake-up, cull those (able-bodied) not willing to work that day.

The remainders are sent to the fields or the hospital as required.

In the evening, the workers get food and water, and the non-workers get water only.

For that day, the non-workers get housed in separate quarters to avoid their friends sneaking food to them.

No torture required.

??Comments??

R
.

ayg wrote:There are some problems with making the prisoners work, specific to this war.

As long as they believe that the heretics are enemies of God they are not going to willingly cooperate. That means they will have to be carefully watched and their work checked to make sure there is no sabotage.

The guards have to be not only able but willing to force the unwilling prisoners to do the work. And we all know the Inner Circle would never allow their people to torture and kill prisoners, so they can't use the methods the Inquisition uses in their prisoner camps.

Some people have mentioned paying the prisoners for working, but a religious fanatic isn't going to want money from evil demon worshippers.

You need to start by teaching the prisoners that the Church is wrong, but that is going to be almost impossible.

Not really. Recall the effective trade Admiral Gwylym Manthyr had with the Harchongese fishermen in his campaign. They appeared to have no issues with heretical Charisians. If the CoC administered the POW works program and they distributed the payments, I suspect that many of the slaves will participate willingly. Heck, knowing Maikel he would insist that loyalist clergy be made available to the slaves as well as CoC clergy.

ayg wrote:There are some problems with making the prisoners work, specific to this war.

As long as they believe that the heretics are enemies of God they are not going to willingly cooperate. That means they will have to be carefully watched and their work checked to make sure there is no sabotage.

The guards have to be not only able but willing to force the unwilling prisoners to do the work. And we all know the Inner Circle would never allow their people to torture and kill prisoners, so they can't use the methods the Inquisition uses in their prisoner camps.

Some people have mentioned paying the prisoners for working, but a religious fanatic isn't going to want money from evil demon worshippers.

You need to start by teaching the prisoners that the Church is wrong, but that is going to be almost impossible.

kbus888 wrote:=2014/06/12=
Possible solution to motivating POW's to work.

Upon wake-up, cull those (able-bodied) not willing to work that day.

The remainders are sent to the fields or the hospital as required.

In the evening, the workers get food and water, and the non-workers get water only.

For that day, the non-workers get housed in separate quarters to avoid their friends sneaking food to them.

No torture required.

??Comments??

R
.

ayg wrote:There are some problems with making the prisoners work, specific to this war.

... SNIP ... almost impossible.

hmmmmm - sounds a bit like what I imagine the regime is like in the COGA camps in Siddarmark. Don't think that's going to appeal to Cayleb, Staynair etc...

PeterZ wrote:Not really. Recall the effective trade Admiral Gwylym Manthyr had with the Harchongese fishermen in his campaign. They appeared to have no issues with heretical Charisians. If the CoC administered the POW works program and they distributed the payments, I suspect that many of the slaves will participate willingly. Heck, knowing Maikel he would insist that loyalist clergy be made available to the slaves as well as CoC clergy.

Chances are that as POWs they'll be earning more then they did back home, just like those German's someone mentioned up post