Battle of Spindle Errors

The Battle of Spindle lists the missile armament for the Saganami-C heavy cruiser incorrectly, and then runs with that error to create missile salvo's that are twice as big as they should have been.

According to the book (Mission of Honor, ch.22) the Edward Saganami-C heavy cruisers mounted 40 missile tubes in each broadside, giving them a total of 80 missile tubes, all capable of firing the Mark 16 dual drive missiles. These cruisers are also said to be around 480 kilotons in weight. Elsewhere it is stated that the new Nike class battle cruisers, which weigh in at 2500 kilotons, only mount a total of 50 missile tubes (25 per broadside). This seems to be a big inconsistency. According to the companion book House of Steel, the Saganami-C should actually have only 40 missile tubes (20 per broadside). So, if we correct this error, the 12 heavy cruisers should have been able to control 40 + 60% redundancy in fire control links = 64 x 12 ships = 768 missiles. The Apollo pods have 8 regular missiles and one Apollo control missile, so that bring the total salvo size up to 768 x 8 = 6144 attack/ew missiles. According to the book a quarter were ew birds, so 4608 attack and 1536 ew missiles. The salvo was targeted on 23 Solly SD's, which comes to only 200 attack missiles per SD, which was the lowest estimate the Manties thought an SD required for a mission kill. So it would have still been possible, but the battle planning would have to be rewritten in order to make this fit. Either that or the number of SD's targeted should be reduced to say 13 or 14.

NegativeEnergy wrote:The Battle of Spindle lists the missile armament for the Saganami-C heavy cruiser incorrectly, and then runs with that error to create missile salvo's that are twice as big as they should have been.

According to the book (Mission of Honor, ch.22) the Edward Saganami-C heavy cruisers mounted 40 missile tubes in each broadside, giving them a total of 80 missile tubes, all capable of firing the Mark 16 dual drive missiles. These cruisers are also said to be around 480 kilotons in weight. Elsewhere it is stated that the new Nike class battle cruisers, which weigh in at 2500 kilotons, only mount a total of 50 missile tubes (25 per broadside). This seems to be a big inconsistency. According to the companion book House of Steel, the Saganami-C should actually have only 40 missile tubes (20 per broadside). So, if we correct this error, the 12 heavy cruisers should have been able to control 40 + 60% redundancy in fire control links = 64 x 12 ships = 768 missiles. The Apollo pods have 8 regular missiles and one Apollo control missile, so that bring the total salvo size up to 768 x 8 = 6144 attack/ew missiles. According to the book a quarter were ew birds, so 4608 attack and 1536 ew missiles. The salvo was targeted on 23 Solly SD's, which comes to only 200 attack missiles per SD, which was the lowest estimate the Manties thought an SD required for a mission kill. So it would have still been possible, but the battle planning would have to be rewritten in order to make this fit. Either that or the number of SD's targeted should be reduced to say 13 or 14.

According to House of Steel, the Saganami-C has sufficient fire control to fire "three 'stacked broadsides' ", plus redundancies. With 20 tubes in each broadside, that gives the Saganami-C the ability to fire off 120 missile salvos. She carries 128 control links (120 for three stacked broadsides, 8 redundant).

Another way of reading that is as it's presented in MoH: 20 tubes in a broadside, designed for stacked double broadsides (80 control links) plus a 60% redundancy (128 control links).

128 x 12 ships = 1536 control links, one dedicated to each Apollo control missile. 1536 x 8 missiles per Apollo platform = 12,288 missile platforms. Precisely what Terekhov shoved down Crandall's throat at Spindle.

The Nike doesn't carry a whole lot more firepower than the Saganami-C, actually, with 25 tubes in each broadside she only has a 10 tube advantage over the Saganami-C. They're designed for added endurance and capabilities, not for a huge addition in pure firepower. House of Steel addresses this question specifically when it talks about the Nike.

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Negative Energy;

First of all, welcome to the Forum if no one has extended it yet.

Now, why you are wrong, wrong, wrong...(hey, it's a short welcoming phase....

Anyway, you are quite correct in the MoH error in Chapter 22, the MWW got a bit 'carried away' there, and 20 missiles per broadside is certainly correct.

However, he also says that the Sag-C can fire double broadsides with control and presuming that it has off-bore capability, that gives you the 80+48=128 control links needed to fire the Manty Missile Massacre at Spindle.

NegativeEnergy wrote:The Battle of Spindle lists the missile armament for the Saganami-C heavy cruiser incorrectly, and then runs with that error to create missile salvo's that are twice as big as they should have been.

According to the book (Mission of Honor, ch.22) the Edward Saganami-C heavy cruisers mounted 40 missile tubes in each broadside, giving them a total of 80 missile tubes, all capable of firing the Mark 16 dual drive missiles. These cruisers are also said to be around 480 kilotons in weight. Elsewhere it is stated that the new Nike class battle cruisers, which weigh in at 2500 kilotons, only mount a total of 50 missile tubes (25 per broadside). This seems to be a big inconsistency. According to the companion book House of Steel, the Saganami-C should actually have only 40 missile tubes (20 per broadside). So, if we correct this error, the 12 heavy cruisers should have been able to control 40 + 60% redundancy in fire control links = 64 x 12 ships = 768 missiles. The Apollo pods have 8 regular missiles and one Apollo control missile, so that bring the total salvo size up to 768 x 8 = 6144 attack/ew missiles. According to the book a quarter were ew birds, so 4608 attack and 1536 ew missiles. The salvo was targeted on 23 Solly SD's, which comes to only 200 attack missiles per SD, which was the lowest estimate the Manties thought an SD required for a mission kill. So it would have still been possible, but the battle planning would have to be rewritten in order to make this fit. Either that or the number of SD's targeted should be reduced to say 13 or 14.

Are you sure you aren't looking at the eARC (electronic advanced reader copy) of the book?

Oh, and welcome to the forums.

I checked and while my eARC copy does have the incorrect

Mission of Honor - eARC wrote:The Saganami-C-class heavy cruiser massed four hundred and eighty thousand tons. It mounted forty missile launchers in each broadside, and it had been designed to fire double broadsides at its enemies, then provided with a sixty percent redundancy in control links as a reserve against battle damage. That gave each of Aivars Terekhov's cruisers one hundred and twenty eight telemetry links, and each of those links was assigned to one Mark 23-E missile, which, in turn, controlled eight standard Mark 23s.

the final ebook version instead says

Mission of Honor wrote:The Saganami-C-class heavy cruiser massed four hundred and eighty thousand tons. It mounted twenty missile launchers in each broadside, and it was capable of “off-bore” fire with both broadsides simultaneously. More, it had been designed from the outset around the Mark 16 dual-drive missile. Although it was no pod-layer, it did have the capability to “stack” two double broadsides simultaneously, and the designers had provided it with a sixty percent redundancy in control links as a reserve against battle damage. Tuning in all of that redundancy gave each of Aivars Terekhov’s cruisers one hundred and twenty-eight telemetry links, and each of those links was assigned to one Mark 23-E missile, which, in turn, controlled eight standard Mark 23s.

Same number of missile control links; but for different stated reasons.

Hi Hutch,

Always good to see your posts.

Minor nit; it's 2 stacked broadsides plus 60% redundant fire control links for 128 F/C for each of the 12 Sag-C CA's that means 1536 pods, or 12,288 ship-killers and 1536 Apollo control missiles for 13,824 total [which BTW happens to be 24 cubed].

L

Hutch wrote:Negative Energy;

First of all, welcome to the Forum if no one has extended it yet.

Now, why you are wrong, wrong, wrong...(hey, it's a short welcoming phase....

Anyway, you are quite correct in the MoH error in Chapter 22, the MWW got a bit 'carried away' there, and 20 missiles per broadside is certainly correct.

However, he also says that the Sag-C can fire double broadsides with control and presuming that it has off-bore capability, that gives you the 80+48=128 control links needed to fire the Manty Missile Massacre at Spindle.

lyonheart wrote:Hi Hutch,

Always good to see your posts.

Minor nit; it's 2 stacked broadsides plus 60% redundant fire control links for 128 F/C for each of the 12 Sag-C CA's that means 1536 pods, or 12,288 ship-killers and 1536 Apollo control missiles for 13,824 total [which BTW happens to be 24 cubed].

L

Hutch wrote:Negative Energy;

First of all, welcome to the Forum if no one has extended it yet.

Now, why you are wrong, wrong, wrong...(hey, it's a short welcoming phase....

Anyway, you are quite correct in the MoH error in Chapter 22, the MWW got a bit 'carried away' there, and 20 missiles per broadside is certainly correct.

However, he also says that the Sag-C can fire double broadsides with control and presuming that it has off-bore capability, that gives you the 80+48=128 control links needed to fire the Manty Missile Massacre at Spindle.

Lyonheart--but that's what I said--or at least, what I meant...

Yes, I only have the ARC version of the book. I thought it may have been an error that got fixed in the final release. Glad to see they caught it.

Regarding the Saganami-C's fire control links, thanks for clearing that up. Guess I didn't think there would be so much more fire control available to 'only' heavy cruisers.

It is worth noting that the Sag-B, which was still in production at the start of the second war, was far less well equipped, at least in the original block, in the chasers, in fact its chaser link count 18, as I recall, seems to be the production of the imp of the perverse.
As far as it being a far more than 'only' a CA should mount, well the Sag-C is designed around being capable of double stacked double broadsides, with 60% fire control redundancy, equivalent to a start of the First War SD, that or it is designed to fire triple stacked double broadside with the standard 8 link redundancy of the Edward Saganami class (which is 50% redundancy rounded up to the nearest even number).

NegativeEnergy wrote:Yes, I only have the ARC version of the book. I thought it may have been an error that got fixed in the final release. Glad to see they caught it.

Regarding the Saganami-C's fire control links, thanks for clearing that up. Guess I didn't think there would be so much more fire control available to 'only' heavy cruisers.

HungryKing wrote:It is worth noting that the Sag-B, which was still in production at the start of the second war, was far less well equipped, at least in the original block, in the chasers, in fact its chaser link count 18, as I recall, seems to be the production of the imp of the perverse.
As far as it being a far more than 'only' a CA should mount, well the Sag-C is designed around being capable of double stacked double broadsides, with 60% fire control redundancy, equivalent to a start of the First War SD, that or it is designed to fire triple stacked double broadside with the standard 8 link redundancy of the Edward Saganami class (which is 50% redundancy rounded up to the nearest even number).

NegativeEnergy wrote:Yes, I only have the ARC version of the book. I thought it may have been an error that got fixed in the final release. Glad to see they caught it.

Regarding the Saganami-C's fire control links, thanks for clearing that up. Guess I didn't think there would be so much more fire control available to 'only' heavy cruisers.

'Only' heavy cruisers? lol

Saganami-C 483,000T
Prince Consort 246,500T

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