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Desnair Aristocracy

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Desnair Aristocracy
Post by Alistair   » Sun Jun 01, 2014 5:51 pm

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How much of Desnair Aristocracy has been taken out with the loss of both its army and Navy?

I imagine that all of the officer core are of good blood with only a handful of "middle class" officers.

So arguably Desnair has lost over 2000 nobles in its clashes with Charis.

What impact will that have on the politics back home?

Secondly given that the Aristocrats rule Desnair unlike the mandarins in Harchong. How willing will they be to raise pay and send another army with more of their heirs putting there lives on the line.

My answer:

I suspect that the Aristocracy will start dragging its feet where an a new offensive army will be concerned but will be willing to defend its territorial integrity from a Siddarmark invasion.
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Re: Desnair Aristocracy
Post by KNick   » Sun Jun 01, 2014 6:07 pm

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While I think the number of dead aristocrats you are postulating is on the low side, there is some textev that Safehold families tend to be rather larger than we see today, including the nobles. In fact, I would be surprised if the nobles did not re-marry if a first or second wife died in child birth. Not to mention mistresses and casual affairs that end with children. I can see an aristocrat fighting to keep his first-born son out of the new army, not so much with later sons. I can definitely see them pushing such children into service, if for no other reason than to secure the first-born's place.
_


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Re: Desnair Aristocracy
Post by iranuke   » Sun Jun 01, 2014 6:31 pm

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My opinion is that by the time they have another army ready to go, they won't be able to get to Siddarmark because the Grand Duchy of Silkah will be closed to them.
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Re: Desnair Aristocracy
Post by Direwolf18   » Sun Jun 01, 2014 7:31 pm

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I think Desnair is going to get one more "swing" in when they try and hold Silkiah, I wouldn't be shocked if they are ordered to garrison it, and get ready to repeat the Sword to deny Charis yet another potential ally.

I also see it failing pretty wretchedly this time, and the Allies gaining +1.
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Re: Desnair Aristocracy
Post by tootall   » Mon Jun 02, 2014 2:47 pm

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Direwolf18 wrote:I think Desnair is going to get one more "swing" in when they try and hold Silkiah, I wouldn't be shocked if they are ordered to garrison it, and get ready to repeat the Sword to deny Charis yet another potential ally.
I also see it failing pretty wretchedly this time, and the Allies gaining +1.


Didn't see that option- Good call.

And I agree- there are plenty of nobles back home-dying - to fight the heretics. And since there probably won't be any blame attached to Harless, this next army may not be much smarter. ( I say that because Alverez- and his folks who know the truth-are out of contact. Hennett has to be busy spinning the disaster as completely the fault of the Alverez's incompetent and cowardly actions from the VERY beginning of the campaign. And, I'm hoping that the Grand Nephew will have somehow joined Hennett and will be adding his two cents to the fire.)
Can you just imagine? Alverez finally gets what remains of his army to safety- only to have the inquisition attempt to arrest him. I doubt that his own inquisitor will allow that- there's a scene for you. His own troops and his own inquisitor having a stand off with the arresting inquisitors.
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Re: Desnair Aristocracy
Post by saber964   » Mon Jun 02, 2014 6:17 pm

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Ok, basing on what usually occurred during the Middle Ages on Earth. Which has a strong corollary to Safehold. Is first sons basically learned the family business of being a noble and maybe a safe staff job in the military. Second sons were often strongly encouraged to go into the clergy to get an education, this did not always happen, but it did happen often enough. Third and fourth sons were usually encouraged to go into the military. Any more sons were pushed in to the military or were trained to help run a nobles estates depending on the size of the said estates.
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Re: Desnair Aristocracy
Post by biochem   » Tue Jun 03, 2014 12:18 am

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Not to mention mistresses and casual affairs that end with children


It'd be interesting to see what the Desnair tradition is to deal with this challenge. In the Middle Ages, there was a lot of variance between time periods, countries and individuals.
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Re: Desnair Aristocracy
Post by SYED   » Fri Jun 06, 2014 2:30 am

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Do they still have a bunch of ships in the capital city bay?
What if to give them a great showing by sending the nextironclad war ship to not only destroy those ships, but shatter their capital. Imagine the effect of an empire having their capital destroyed, that will hurt alot.
How would the church explain that an empire lost their capital to the enemy? The threat to every coastal settlement would be enough to justify keeping its army at home. The only reason why desnair has been able to pay tithes is due to gold mines, but the capital is sure to cause economic issues. It seems that the capital would be the best place to find the highest ranked nobles.
If enough nobility is killed, both in the armed forces and the capital, there would be succession issues for alot of titles
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Re: Desnair Aristocracy
Post by AirTech   » Mon Jun 09, 2014 10:18 am

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saber964 wrote:Ok, basing on what usually occurred during the Middle Ages on Earth. Which has a strong corollary to Safehold. Is first sons basically learned the family business of being a noble and maybe a safe staff job in the military. Second sons were often strongly encouraged to go into the clergy to get an education, this did not always happen, but it did happen often enough. Third and fourth sons were usually encouraged to go into the military. Any more sons were pushed in to the military or were trained to help run a nobles estates depending on the size of the said estates.

Or in England during the first world war - a lot of noble families were decapitated (leading from the front and all that...). Small families in the nobility are more common than in the peasantry as multiple heirs are a net positive to a peasant (more hands to work the farm) and a net negative to a noble (splitting the inheritance).
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Re: Desnair Aristocracy
Post by SYED   » Mon Jun 09, 2014 11:30 am

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Virtually all of the officer corps was nobility, and those involved saw it as a chance to advance and gain new lands. So the titled nobles would have wanted to be there for the prestige of it.
Does anyone know what has happened to the small fleet of ships that was in the bay of the capital?
With the shattering of their army, the remains are either captured, or forced in to retreating to the dohlar battle lines. Seeing as there is no parole due to the jihad, will they simply remain as prisoners, or could they ransom them back to the army of god? They do need someone to blame, and hand over to the church for punishment.
I wonder what percentage of the remaining army is officers, if they attempted to force their men to stand and fight, i could see fragging occurring.
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