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GA PR campaign for splitting and collapsing the SL

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Re: GA PR campaign for splitting and collapsing the SL
Post by Weird Harold   » Tue Jun 03, 2014 10:30 pm

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Greentea wrote:The SL News Service is used to being spoon-fed the "truth" by the Department of Education and Information. They follow the official line. Bringing the prisoners and ships home would show how useless and outdated the GA considers the SLN to be. It would be a big blow that will play very well with the Verge and Shell and open a crack in the Core's rosy glasses of lies.


That sort of assumes that the Mandarins and SLN Brass don't sequester any naval personnel repatriated by Manticore and ship them off to their equivalent of Basilisk Station (prior to Honor's assignment there) as quickly as they can arrange shipping.
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Re: GA PR campaign for splitting and collapsing the SL
Post by Quinlan73   » Tue Jun 03, 2014 11:03 pm

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Weird Harold wrote:
Greentea wrote:The SL News Service is used to being spoon-fed the "truth" by the Department of Education and Information. They follow the official line. Bringing the prisoners and ships home would show how useless and outdated the GA considers the SLN to be. It would be a big blow that will play very well with the Verge and Shell and open a crack in the Core's rosy glasses of lies.


That sort of assumes that the Mandarins and SLN Brass don't sequester any naval personnel repatriated by Manticore and ship them off to their equivalent of Basilisk Station (prior to Honor's assignment there) as quickly as they can arrange shipping.


And if they did that the SL would run of experienced(or what passes for experience in the SL) personnel.
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Re: GA PR campaign for splitting and collapsing the SL
Post by Weird Harold   » Wed Jun 04, 2014 11:30 am

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Quinlan73 wrote:And if they did that the SL would run of experienced(or what passes for experience in the SL) personnel.


Like that would stop them. :lol:

At the very least, I would expect the SLN to slap a "Top Secret, Burn Before reading" on anything to do with combat against the GA and sequester returned personnel "for debriefing" until the News Agencies can be sidetracked with something shiny and/or bloody.

The SLN and Mandarins seem to think "how can we cover this up" before they even consider "how can we fix this."
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Re: GA PR campaign for splitting and collapsing the SL
Post by n7axw   » Thu Jun 05, 2014 12:49 am

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Where is the textev for the notion of throwing 4-500 solly sds at Beowulf? I don't recall seeing that anywhere.

Don
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: GA PR campaign for splitting and collapsing the SL
Post by Weird Harold   » Thu Jun 05, 2014 1:32 am

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n7axw wrote:Where is the textev for the notion of throwing 4-500 solly sds at Beowulf? I don't recall seeing that anywhere.


I'm not sure a number is specified, but the attack is planned/approved in A Rising Thunder.
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Re: GA PR campaign for splitting and collapsing the SL
Post by SWM   » Thu Jun 05, 2014 8:48 am

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n7axw wrote:Where is the textev for the notion of throwing 4-500 solly sds at Beowulf? I don't recall seeing that anywhere.

Don

The number is pure speculation from posters on this forum.
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Re: GA PR campaign for splitting and collapsing the SL
Post by Jeroswen   » Thu Jun 05, 2014 11:47 am

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Weird Harold wrote:
Quinlan73 wrote:And if they did that the SL would run of experienced(or what passes for experience in the SL) personnel.


Like that would stop them. :lol:

At the very least, I would expect the SLN to slap a "Top Secret, Burn Before reading" on anything to do with combat against the GA and sequester returned personnel "for debriefing" until the News Agencies can be sidetracked with something shiny and/or bloody.

The SLN and Mandarins seem to think "how can we cover this up" before they even consider "how can we fix this."



You are correct, they can try to cover it up and could sequester all the personel. The news agencies could continue to ignore the facts. However you are missing the whole point.

If you drop into the Sol System with what, 400+SD's and all supporting craft and all the personel, you are going to make a HUGE hyper foot print when you arrive. All the military at least are going to know it arrives as well as more than just a few merchantmen and any other ships plying the system. Even if they find a way to hide it from the public that is a LOT of people to keep quiet. Eventually news will leak out, there is no way to keep a return of a fleet that big to the Sol system secret forever.

Sending the message to stop hostilities so they don't lose any more personel needlessly is for propaganda. It matters not if the message is believed, the statement behind it is, "Here is your useless junk, stop attacking us. We don't like killing your people needlessly." The cost in moral to the Solarian Navy will be devastating. What message do you think Solarian Navy personel are going to get when Manticore gives back top of the line warships? Military scuttlebut travels faster than most news can be transmitted. News will get out and mutinies will be a strong possibility if more attacks take place. And some news agencies may actually cover the arrival, even though they have towed the line, its a huge story. Some reporters are going to be human and cover it anyway for personal prestige if nothing else.

The third added benefit is Manticore no longer needs to find a way to house and feed over 2 million prisoners of war. Also the ships are outdated and really pose no threat. Why not give them back? Let Sol decide on what to do with them.
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Re: GA PR campaign for splitting and collapsing the SL
Post by lyonheart   » Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:10 am

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Hi Jerosen,

This not a new topic.

Originally, I agreed it was a waste of GA resources, but the political impact of trashing all of the SLN's reserve, especially the BF's which has been the club to keep so many in the shell, protectorates and verge so accepting of their fate is too tremendous not to do it, NTM the far less expensive means of destroying all of it.

Everyone knows they cannot fight so many SD's.

Effectively eliminate the BF and who wants to stay?

Before Lacoon 1&2, there wasn't an effective way for those anti-SL systems to coordinate with all the rest who wanted to quit the SL [thus dividing the SLN's forces into much smaller threats, which might be faced], because the risk of the SL finding out before the connections were made were too great and nipping any such effort in the bud.

Now the SL and/or mandarins are far more removed from being able to respond to such separatist feelings, NTM BF has been removed from the playing field by Kingsford, which will only be exacerbated by whatever they attempt in regards to Beowulf, so splits from the SL may happen far faster than we've previously thought even if those systems don't immediately join the GA.

L


Jeroswen wrote:**quote="phillies"*
*Show up at Terra with the Beowulf SDF and friends. Have the Beowulf SDF, using tractored missile pods, blow up Hyperion. "act of self defense". Friends provide antimissile defenses to the Beowulf SDF.

Of course, if the hypothetical attack on Beowulf, if it happens, violates the Eridani Edict, then appearing at Sol with a list of the guilty, a supply of port-a-gallows, and the suggestion that the ISLN should do the arresting might spread confusion.

namelessfly wrote:The best, or at least most effective, PR gesture would be to respond to the impending attack on Beawulf by first destroying the SLN ships then making the short hop from the Beawulf terminus to Sol system with a squadron of SD(P)s to blow away all of the remaining SLN fleet (including reserves), SLN fleet bases, and shipyards known to build ships and parts for the SLN.

I suppose that the RMN should be gracious enough to grant the inhabitants of the various space platforms an opportunity to surrender and evacuate rather than just blowing them away from long range to kill millions of people as occurred at Oyster Bay.

The RMN might even take steps to ensure that no "fragments" from orbital facilities impact inhabited planets to kill millions.
**/quote**

I've been lurking for quite a while but this thread got me thinking. I hope if anyone hits on what Mr. Weber wants to do he'll do it anyway and not try to force a change because someone "guessed right".

Anyway I think the best way to deal with everything here is very simple. Load up every surviving ship and crewman from BOM2 and Spindle and escort them with a Squadron of SD(P)'s, Carrier Support, and screening elements, right to the SOL system itself. Sit right on the hyper limit and invite the Solly News crews to examine the records contained on the ship and allow them to interview the crews before turning them and the ships loose to be repatriated in the SOL system. The Task Force should issue a warning to the Solarian League that any further attacks, including those against Beowulf, will be viewed as a full declaration of war against the Grand Alliance.

This is a win, win, win for the Grand Alliance.

1. You get the Solarian News agencies the facts and a scoop they can't pass up.
2. You don't have to deal with housing millions of POW's and finding spots for hundreds of obsolete ships.
3. The blow to the SLN's psyche will be tremendous. Even without saying it, its quite clear that "We gave you back your obsolete ships, play nice or the gloves come off" is the real message being sent.

Their infrastructure is obsolete. I would not destroy it and force them to rebuild new. Let them keep their crap and their old way of doing things. You want to keep them from modernizing as long as possible.

Just my two cents.
Any snippet or post from RFC is good if not great!
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Re: GA PR campaign for splitting and collapsing the SL
Post by lyonheart   » Fri Jun 06, 2014 1:11 am

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Hi Weird Harold,

Actually we have some considerable textev that the Mandarins know they can't keep lying forever; which was from lat '21 through the spring-early summer of '22; they know their rope of lies will run out in a few month's so by this fall-winter they will have to explain or account for at least some of their lies, if not sooner by various GA actions. ;)

Then there's the shock of what happens to Mesa, how many mandarins, other SL bureaucrats and SLN admirals etc have financial links or something more to Mesa etc?

Which Audrey is supposed to find?

Just how RFC has arranged all these possible houses of cards to collapse will be fascinating. 8-)

L


Weird Harold wrote:
Quinlan73 wrote:And if they did that the SL would run of experienced(or what passes for experience in the SL) personnel.


Like that would stop them. :lol:

At the very least, I would expect the SLN to slap a "Top Secret, Burn Before reading" on anything to do with combat against the GA and sequester returned personnel "for debriefing" until the News Agencies can be sidetracked with something shiny and/or bloody.

The SLN and Mandarins seem to think "how can we cover this up" before they even consider "how can we fix this."
Any snippet or post from RFC is good if not great!
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Re: GA PR campaign for splitting and collapsing the SL
Post by BobfromSydney   » Fri Jun 06, 2014 1:18 am

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I don't think we can cut the Solarian Knot with a Hammer.

Imagine if a foreign country sailed into Chesapeake Bay, bombed the White House and the Pentagon then told the 50 states that they should dissolve the union. I could see no better way to galvanise a shaky confederation that is not particularly interested in going to war.

Long term everyone is going to be keen on revenge against Manticore. The only acceptable outcome for the GA is not something that will make them safe tomorrow, but in a hundred years time as well.

To break up the league it is not enough to discredit the performance of the league in battle. The concept of the league and the capability of the league to exercise its responsibilities and essential duties must be overturned.

Cutting communications to enable chaos to form and also cripple the centralised SL's command and control capability is a genius move. It is vital to motivate members of the league to leave it.

Inciting the Mandarins to panic so they alienate the member systems is a good step.
Encouraging rebellion in the verge and shell is a good step.
Crippling the trade and economy of league members is a good step.
Exposing the corruption and malfeasance of the league bureaucracy is a good step.

Anything that makes member systems disgusted with the SL and make them want to leave of their own accord. Threatening the league makes people seek SECURITY - 'safety in numbers' is pretty much the only thing the league has to offer at this point, so this would be playing to the league's strengths. Now I realise there is not much ACTUAL safety for the league to offer at the moment, but if the public perception of Elizabeth is 'Pirate Queen Genghis Khan' every system is going to stay 'loyal' to the league rather than 'risk' the 'alternative'.
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