CLYNTAHN’S FATE

Let me pose a hypothetical question.
The Temple has fallen and Arch Vicar Clin…oops (Clyntahn) has been captured alive, what should be his fate!
Now one of the tools I’ve noticed writers using, is when setting a character up for a nasty fall, is to demonize them as much as possible.
In Clyntahn’s case, DW has certainly succeeded in creating a veritable human demon. One, not only directly responsible for millions of deaths, but also the inhuman torture of tens of thousands.
So I ask again what should be the fate of such a creature?
There’s a saying: Death is too good for someone like that!
My own solution in Clyntahn’s case would be to have him live out the remainder of his life in a padded “super-max” cell, deprived of everything of meaning in his life, with only one of OWL’s servitors to see that he had water and nutrient gruel for sustenance. Maybe a view screen with carefully edited glimpses of Safehold evolving in ways beyond his imaginings.
Clyntahn is a megalomaniac depraved and licentious glutton. Taking away his power, and the means to satiate his appetites would hurt him more then death.

Arol wrote:Let me pose a hypothetical question.
The Temple has fallen and Arch Vicar Clin…oops (Clyntahn) has been captured alive, what should be his fate!
Now one of the tools I’ve noticed writers using, is when setting a character up for a nasty fall, is to demonize them as much as possible.
In Clyntahn’s case, DW has certainly succeeded in creating a veritable human demon. One, not only directly responsible for millions of deaths, but also the inhuman torture of tens of thousands.
So I ask again what should be the fate of such a creature?
There’s a saying: Death is too good for someone like that!
My own solution in Clyntahn’s case would be to have him live out the remainder of his life in a padded “super-max” cell, deprived of everything of meaning in his life, with only one of OWL’s servitors to see that he had water and nutrient gruel for sustenance. Maybe a view screen with carefully edited glimpses of Safehold evolving in ways beyond his imaginings.
Clyntahn is a megalomaniac depraved and licentious glutton. Taking away his power, and the means to satiate his appetites would hurt him more then death.

I partial to the idea of putting his head on a stick in the middle of the Temple square.

Just kill him. Kill him quick, kill him humanely but just kill him.

Arol wrote:Let me pose a hypothetical question.
The Temple has fallen and Arch Vicar Clin…oops (Clyntahn) has been captured alive, what should be his fate!

Let me answer with a scene from another series from MWW:

"So now what?" Saint-Just demanded. "A big show trial before the execution? Proof of my 'crimes' for the Proles and the newsies?"

"No," the citizen admiral said softly. "I think we've had enough of those sorts of trials."

His hand rose with Saint-Just's pulser, and the Citizen Chairman's eyes widened as the muzzle aligned with his forehead at a meter's range.

"Good-bye, Citizen Chairman."

Replace Saint-Just with Clyntahn and Adm Theisman with Cayleb or Merlin or even Aivah, and you have a rough draft of Clyntahn's fate.

I agree.

While it would be emotionally satisfying to give Clyntahn an "interesting" fate, IMO that's not how David Weber writes.

Still, it would be "interesting" if Clyntahn was just placed in a cell somewhere to see Safehold quietly changing and him being unable to do anything to stop the change.

Weird Harold wrote:

Arol wrote:Let me pose a hypothetical question.
The Temple has fallen and Arch Vicar Clin…oops (Clyntahn) has been captured alive, what should be his fate!

Let me answer with a scene from another series from MWW:

"So now what?" Saint-Just demanded. "A big show trial before the execution? Proof of my 'crimes' for the Proles and the newsies?"

"No," the citizen admiral said softly. "I think we've had enough of those sorts of trials."

His hand rose with Saint-Just's pulser, and the Citizen Chairman's eyes widened as the muzzle aligned with his forehead at a meter's range.

"Good-bye, Citizen Chairman."

Replace Saint-Just with Clyntahn and Adm Theisman with Cayleb or Merlin or even Aivah, and you have a rough draft of Clyntahn's fate.

Funny, I always thought Clynthahn would join MSNBC as a political commentator, or possibly an contributor on ABC and NPR.

DrakBibliophile wrote:Still, it would be "interesting" if Clyntahn was just placed in a cell somewhere to see Safehold quietly changing and him being unable to do anything to stop the change.

Why keep a live rallying point when a dead Martyr causes less problems.

Arol wrote:Let me pose a hypothetical question.
The Temple has fallen and Arch Vicar Clin…oops (Clyntahn) has been captured alive, what should be his fate!
Now one of the tools I’ve noticed writers using, is when setting a character up for a nasty fall, is to demonize them as much as possible.
In Clyntahn’s case, DW has certainly succeeded in creating a veritable human demon. One, not only directly responsible for millions of deaths, but also the inhuman torture of tens of thousands.
So I ask again what should be the fate of such a creature?
There’s a saying: Death is too good for someone like that!
My own solution in Clyntahn’s case would be to have him live out the remainder of his life in a padded “super-max” cell, deprived of everything of meaning in his life, with only one of OWL’s servitors to see that he had water and nutrient gruel for sustenance. Maybe a view screen with carefully edited glimpses of Safehold evolving in ways beyond his imaginings.
Clyntahn is a megalomaniac depraved and licentious glutton. Taking away his power, and the means to satiate his appetites would hurt him more then death.

What is the goal? Not Clyntahn, not the others of the G4, not the church. It's getting humanity back on track and defeat of the Gbaba. There have already been tactical sacrifices made in furtherance of strategic goals, most notably, ambivalence about some enemy technologic advances. Destruction of the COG infrastructure would fragment the rabid faithful into a self justifying underground. Better to eliminate Clyntahn in the manner that creates the greatest change in the COG, while leaving it viable to lead the faithful. The COCharis is busy sowing the seeds of it's own irrelevance, and what better than to put the COG on the same track. Clyntahn will end as a criminal, not a martyr.

DrakBibliophile wrote:I agree.
While it would be emotionally satisfying to give Clyntahn an "interesting" fate, IMO that's not how David Weber writes.

I guess you’re right.
As the poster above noted DW even gave St. Just a quick bullet in the head even though his hands were as blood soaked as Clynthan.
But with St. Just DW hadn’t demonised him to the extent he has with The Mad Arch Vicar.
With St. Just is was more like an icy Don Corleone; ”Hey..It’s just business, nothing personal.”
Whereas Clynthan its all fire and hate.

Arol wrote:

DrakBibliophile wrote:I agree.
While it would be emotionally satisfying to give Clyntahn an "interesting" fate, IMO that's not how David Weber writes.

I guess you’re right.
As the poster above noted DW even gave St. Just a quick bullet in the head even though his hands were as blood soaked as Clynthan.
But with St. Just DW hadn’t demonised him to the extent he has with The Mad Arch Vicar.
With St. Just is was more like an icy Don Corleone; ”Hey..It’s just business, nothing personal.”
Whereas Clynthan its all fire and hate.

Yeah, as satisfying as it would be to see Clyntahn suffer for all he's done, knowing how Charis operates, I expect he would get a fair trial, and either be sentenced to death (hmmm... by firing squad), or to some type of incarceration/exile in some remote island prison. Ooooh, on Armageddon Reef would be nice.

I actually agree that with such as Clyntahn, death is too good a fate. Stripping him of his rank and privileges, force him on a diet of both food and sex, force him to see the world continue without any input from him - that is the sort of perpetual punishment he'd likely find unbearable after a short while.

Worse, I'd put him in one of the cryo chambers Merlin has and preserve him for a century or so until someone like him is utterly irrelevant to humanity. It would require the Charisians to fake his death but think about him waking up in a future where you are utterly meaningless to the people in it. Think about how Clyntahn would react. Think how different the world around him would become in 100 years. Think what it would be like to be presented to the royal court in Tellisberg (to one of Cayleb and Sharleyan's grandchildren) as a living relic of a bygone era. A human museum piece or circus act. I doubt Clyntahn has the psychological tools to adapt to such a world.