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Expended missiles

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Re: Expended missiles
Post by swalke813   » Mon May 26, 2014 9:40 pm

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I think people miss that there are issues of particles and micro debris. That is why Apollo missiles have ablative shielding for coasting runs. Even if a missile went off to an innocent victim at .9c, it would probably be eroded away. Even a hydrogen particle has a lot of kinetic energy when the closure is .9c.
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Re: Expended missiles
Post by namelessfly   » Tue May 27, 2014 12:47 am

namelessfly

swalke813 wrote:I think people miss that there are issues of particles and micro debris. That is why Apollo missiles have ablative shielding for coasting runs. Even if a missile went off to an innocent victim at .9c, it would probably be eroded away. Even a hydrogen particle has a lot of kinetic energy when the closure is .9c.



Assume average interstellar gas density of one hydrogen atom per cc.

Over a distance of 100 LY a 2 meter diameter will impact about:

30,000 square centimeters x 9eex19 cm = 3eex24 cc or 3eex24 atoms or 5 moles of hydrogen atoms.

One mole of hydrogen masses one gram.

Our missile will impact 5 grams of hydrogen atoms during it's 100 LY journey.

KE = 1/2 x 5eex-3 x (2eex8m/s)^2
KE = 1/2 x 5 x 4eex13 Joules = 1eex14 Joules = 25 kilotons.

I think that the missile will be toast before it can hit anything.
Last edited by namelessfly on Tue May 27, 2014 8:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Expended missiles
Post by kzt   » Tue May 27, 2014 1:01 am

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swalke813 wrote:I think people miss that there are issues of particles and micro debris. That is why Apollo missiles have ablative shielding for coasting runs. Even if a missile went off to an innocent victim at .9c, it would probably be eroded away. Even a hydrogen particle has a lot of kinetic energy when the closure is .9c.

Good point.
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Re: Expended missiles
Post by Mobryan   » Tue May 27, 2014 1:31 am

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namelessfly wrote:
swalke813 wrote:I think people miss that there are issues of particles and micro debris. That is why Apollo missiles have ablative shielding for coasting runs. Even if a missile went off to an innocent victim at .9c, it would probably be eroded away. Even a hydrogen particle has a lot of kinetic energy when the closure is .9c.



Assume average interstellar gas density of one hydrogen atom per cc.

Over a distance of 100 LY a 2 meter diameter will impact about:

30,000 square centimeters x 9eex19 cm atoms= 3eex24 atoms or 5 moles.

One mole of hydrogen masses one gram.

Our missile will impact 5 grams of hydrogen atoms during it's 100 LY journey.

KE = 1/2 x 5eex-3 x (2eex8m/s)^2
KE = 1/2 x 5 x 4eex13 Joules = 1eex14 Joules = 25 kilotons.

I think that the missile will be toast before it can hit anything.


Should be substantially less then that, since the velocity will be dropping constantly. OTOH, that same frictional loss means less damage if/when the missile finally covers the distance.

Matt
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Re: Expended missiles
Post by wastedfly   » Tue May 27, 2014 2:47 am

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Mobryan wrote:
Should be substantially less then that, since the velocity will be dropping constantly. OTOH, that same frictional loss means less damage if/when the missile finally covers the distance.

Matt


"Velocity dropping constantly." :roll: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Uh hem... It is a vacuum...
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Re: Expended missiles
Post by Annachie   » Tue May 27, 2014 5:19 am

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Pretty hard to discuss the missile hitting things them claim "But it's a vacuum"
Anyway, isn't it stated in the books that over runs self destruct?
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Re: Expended missiles
Post by wastedfly   » Tue May 27, 2014 7:11 am

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So, slowing down from 0.8c to 0.79999999 is somehow relevant to the discussion? :roll: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Expended missiles
Post by Annachie   » Tue May 27, 2014 7:16 am

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Struck me as amusing, and really you're right any velocity loss due to dust or gravitational forces is too miniscule to worry about in most cases.
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Re: Expended missiles
Post by Weird Harold   » Tue May 27, 2014 8:16 am

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Annachie wrote:Anyway, isn't it stated in the books that over runs self destruct?


Nope. As stated in the Pearl cited above, MWW never thought it necessary to deal with after battle debris.
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Re: Expended missiles
Post by Lord Skimper   » Tue May 27, 2014 8:20 am

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Slowing down due to gravity but capture due to gravity or redirection is always a possibility. I would assume that if your attacking a foreigners nation system planet... You going to be less worried of your missile having a self destruct charge powered up and having enough power to keep the missile functioning. One could see, especially in the past with missiles going ballistic due to running out of power that every drop of power would be used to get the best shot off and no reserve would be left to blow the capacitor just so that the people you are shooting at don't get hurt.

I also don't see how this Eradani Verdict is going to stop anyone who is about to be vaporised from firing a broadside into a planet. Some warped sense of honour and all is robbing you of a last minute victory or even final revenge. Heck even the flushing of the pods in Filaretas final programmed attack should have included firing all 50,000 pod missiles straight at the planet.

Yes the missiles were intercepted except for 2000 crew worth of LAC which must have been a lot of LAC. 100-200? But if they all turned and went sailing past the fleet outside CM and PD range and went barrelling into Sphinx's that would have changed the current situation in favour of the Alignment. It doesn't matter which planet a portion of 50,000 missiles aimed at the big round thing, who supplied the missiles?, is going to do a significant amount of damage. Whether they aim at structures or not.
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