Sylman Gap Question

Could Charis have got more guns at the gap (and other places) earlier than they did?

For example could not the ICN drop off some of its guns with its carpenters making up the carriages at the same time the food convoys were dropped off over the winter and early spring.

Say fifty cannons dropped off at Siddar city at the same time the food was delivered could of made a big difference given that the opposition was only rebel pikemen till late spring.

Cannons won't do much good without their gunners, and the powder and shot to shoot them. So you need wagons in addition to the gun carriages, and draft animals to pull all of them, the fodder to feed those animals, the supplies for the men... It's not that easy to organize all that in the middle of a crisis.

Then you have the fact that naval cannons tend to be bigger and heavier than army cannons, and that much harder to move around. It's one thing to disembark some to defend a coastal city, quite another to bring a couple dozen of them all the way to the various battlefields.

And finally, I tend to assume that Charys used merchant galleons to move the food, not the navy ones, so they wouldn't have had that many excess cannons to begin with, and they probably unloaded any excess guns before they ever left to make room for more food.

Oh, wait, one more detail: it's one thing to bring a cargo of food in a friendly country without asking for permission first; unloading 50 cannons without prior agreement border on being an acto of war

Alistair wrote:Could Charis have got more guns at the gap (and other places) earlier than they did?

For example could not the ICN drop off some of its guns with its carpenters making up the carriages at the same time the food convoys were dropped off over the winter and early spring.

Say fifty cannons dropped off at Siddar city at the same time the food was delivered could of made a big difference given that the opposition was only rebel pikemen till late spring.

I'm confused. There already were Charisiam naval guns on carriages at the Syhlmahn. They just weren't terribly useful, trying to move them across a waterlogged plain. They also couldn't manage things angle guns and mortars could.

Thanks for your comments guys

There were cannons in the Sylman but they arrived just in time for the army of God in early to mid summer.
( I think)

My question is could they have got there earlier?

While the convoys were carrying food they also had escorts and it wouldn't be THAT hard to include one or two extra Naval ships that were tasked to drop off their cannons and gunners.

The cannons and naval gunners could sit in port until the agreement was signed or they could give the cannons over with some trainers before they officially signed the agreement.

Or like British troops moving into Belgium May 1940 screw the paperwork!! you are being invaded heres some help NOW!!

( I heard that the Belgium embassy protested about the Brits coming to the rescue but I can't see any such nonsense from Siddarmark after the rising)

Naval guns are heavier but they could be shipped on canals or they could use the lighter ones that are used on the schooners and privateers.

So in short

Ships are available
Naval Gunners can go to with them
They can be light or heavy cannons
draft animals could go too

So why could they not be deployed earlier?

AClone wrote:I'm confused. There already were Charisiam naval guns on carriages at the Syhlmahn. They just weren't terribly useful, trying to move them across a waterlogged plain. They also couldn't manage things angle guns and mortars could.

It is probably not true to say they weren't useful at Sylman Gap. It would be more accurate to say that they had their limits compared to mortars and angles. Nevertheless those naval guns played a huge role in enabling General Stohner to hold until BGV could arrive with the mortars, angles and Mandrayans.

Also consider that emplaced naval guns stopped Kaitswyrth cold on the Daivyn until they could over run Taisyn's tiny force from behind. That was a tactical defeat for Charis but a strategic victory since it gave Eastshare time to get into a blocking position that prevented the Temple forces from over running Glacierheart.

Don

Alistair wrote:Hi Aclone thanks for your comments

There were cannons in the Sylman but they arrived just in time for the army of God in early to mid summer.
( I think)

My question is could they have got there earlier?

While the convoys were carrying food they also had escorts and it wouldn't be THAT hard to include one or two extra Naval ships that were tasked to drop off their cannons and gunners.

The cannons and naval gunners could sit in port until the agreement was signed or they could give the cannons over with some trainers before they officially signed the agreement.

Or like British troops moving into Belgium May 1940 screw the paperwork!! you are being invaded heres some help NOW!!

( I heard that the Belgium embassy protested about the Brits coming to the rescue but I can't see any such nonsense from Siddarmark after the rising)

Naval guns are heavier but they could be shipped on canals or they could use the lighter ones that are used on the schooners and privateers.

So Aclone in short

Ships are available
Naval Gunners can go to with them
They can be light or heavy cannons
draft animals could go too

So why could they not be deployed earlier?

I suspect that Charis was deploying what they had available as soon as possible. The first priority was food, however, and that was carried in merchantmen, not warships. Those had at most a few wolves, not naval cannon. There was a naval presense convoying the merchis, but there was a limit to what they could give up since they had to protect merchis from Denairian privateers.

Then too, remember that Sylman gap wasn't the only brush fire burning at the time. There was Shiloh, Glacierheart, Ciff Peak, Thesmar and other places as well, all with a valid call on resourses stretched too thin until the Empire could respond in force.

Then too, consider that the Sylman Gap held. It was only by an eyelash and no doubt would have been held more comfortably with more men and artillery. But it did hold. So the action must be judged a success.

War is about prioritizing, sometimes triage as planners must make decisions about the most important places to commit resourses to. So you do that, knowing full well that those choices leave other areas and populations exposed. Then you pray fervantly that the choices you made are the best possible.


I see no evidence that Charis responded to Siddamarkan crisis with anything other than its best effort, but in an age of sail, it was bound to be slow motioned and limited.

Don

Drpending on just how floodit is, armored canal ships, even just to carry troops could do alot of damage.

Hi N7AXW,

WE have yet to see any fruit of the Siddarmark firms experimenting with field artillery that Aivah invested in.

Given the time, a couple of years after the Corisande campaign, the respective iron-masters should have already got quite a good look at the Charisian 12 pounder, possibly quietly bought an example or two, visited the foundries at Tellesburg etc.

So they should have been able to cast cannon at least as quickly as the Go4 nations, and even at only a couple a day should have produced several hundred by now.

But we have yet to see any, despite being such a force multiplier.

We can only assume we'll see quite a few in HFQ.

L

n7axw wrote:

Alistair wrote:Hi Aclone thanks for your comments

There were cannons in the Sylman but they arrived just in time for the army of God in early to mid summer.
( I think)

My question is could they have got there earlier?

While the convoys were carrying food they also had escorts and it wouldn't be THAT hard to include one or two extra Naval ships that were tasked to drop off their cannons and gunners.

The cannons and naval gunners could sit in port until the agreement was signed or they could give the cannons over with some trainers before they officially signed the agreement.

Or like British troops moving into Belgium May 1940 screw the paperwork!! you are being invaded heres some help NOW!!

( I heard that the Belgium embassy protested about the Brits coming to the rescue but I can't see any such nonsense from Siddarmark after the rising)

Naval guns are heavier but they could be shipped on canals or they could use the lighter ones that are used on the schooners and privateers.

So Aclone in short

Ships are available
Naval Gunners can go to with them
They can be light or heavy cannons
draft animals could go too

So why could they not be deployed earlier?

I suspect that Charis was deploying what they had available as soon as possible. The first priority was food, however, and that was carried in merchantmen, not warships. Those had at most a few wolves, not naval cannon. There was a naval presense convoying the merchis, but there was a limit to what they could give up since they had to protect merchis from Denairian privateers.

Then too, remember that Sylman gap wasn't the only brush fire burning at the time. There was Shiloh, Glacierheart, Ciff Peak, Thesmar and other places as well, all with a valid call on resourses stretched too thin until the Empire could respond in force.

Then too, consider that the Sylman Gap held. It was only by an eyelash and no doubt would have been held more comfortably with more men and artillery. But it did hold. So the action must be judged a success.

War is about prioritizing, sometimes triage as planners must make decisions about the most important places to commit resourses to. So you do that, knowing full well that those choices leave other areas and populations exposed. Then you pray fervantly that the choices you made are the best possible.


I see no evidence that Charis responded to Siddamarkan crisis with anything other than its best effort, but in an age of sail, it was bound to be slow motioned and limited.

Don