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GA Strategy, Tactics and Targets

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Re: GA Strategy, Tactics and Targets
Post by n7axw   » Wed May 21, 2014 12:47 am

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Thank you, SWM for a very informative post. I want to make it clear that I am exploring ideas here, not arguing. That being said, I wonder...

If some sort of pinging might work, obviously not sonar in the vacuum of space. But perhaps with light or radio equiped drones. The thing is, the stealthed target would be made of material that would be heavily absorbant of whatever sort of detection device it was defending against. But it could be that a low freq radio wave would be absorbed differently by the target than it would be in the vacuum the surrounding space around the target which might be detectable.

If to build a bit on my previous post, using large numbers of drones in crisscrosing patterns should put some drones in a position to pick up heat signature of stealthed target. I presume designating a search pattern developed around last known location allowing for time of transmission from drones.

The key, I would think, would be to implement as many of these sorts of ideas as possible both high tech and low tech. The assumption is that the stealth will be defending against common and probable means of detection and could be vulnerable to something unexpected in the same way that someone with a pulse rifle can still be taken out by a rock from a slingshot coming from an unexpected direction. Most ideas will come up dry, but eventually something will strike paydirt.

Don
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: GA Strategy, Tactics and Targets
Post by SYED   » Wed May 21, 2014 2:24 am

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I am betting that the alliance will be forced to eliminate fleet units nearest the terminii it controls, at least in the verge, to deny them assets to attack them with. This would then be followed, by each base, port and posting being dealt with. The impression I recieved that in general, the league has never had to deal with extended lines of logistical support. We already know their shipping is constrained, so more pressure is good, and this destruction of league forces in the verge will harm the transtellars, when planets act against them. The league has a long term plan to deal with the alliance, but the transtelkars will use their resources to force immeadiate actions so to protect their profit margins.
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Re: GA Strategy, Tactics and Targets
Post by lyonheart   » Wed May 21, 2014 3:29 am

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Hi N&AXW,

It's also been suggested it might be easier to search for the spiders by going into hyper and looking for any distortion caused by the spider drive, then sending that data into normal via a relay ship etc.

L


n7axw wrote:Thank you, SWM for a very informative post. I want to make it clear that I am exploring ideas here, not arguing. That being said, I wonder...

If some sort of pinging might work, obviously not sonar in the vacuum of space. But perhaps with light or radio equiped drones. The thing is, the stealthed target would be made of material that would be heavily absorbant of whatever sort of detection device it was defending against. But it could be that a low freq radio wave would be absorbed differently by the target than it would be in the vacuum the surrounding space around the target which might be detectable.

If to build a bit on my previous post, using large numbers of drones in crisscrosing patterns should put some drones in a position to pick up heat signature of stealthed target. I presume designating a search pattern developed around last known location allowing for time of transmission from drones.

The key, I would think, would be to implement as many of these sorts of ideas as possible both high tech and low tech. The assumption is that the stealth will be defending against common and probable means of detection and could be vulnerable to something unexpected in the same way that someone with a pulse rifle can still be taken out by a rock from a slingshot coming from an unexpected direction. Most ideas will come up dry, but eventually something will strike paydirt.

Don
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Re: GA Strategy, Tactics and Targets
Post by Weird Harold   » Wed May 21, 2014 7:41 am

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lyonheart wrote:It's also been suggested it might be easier to search for the spiders by going into hyper and looking for any distortion caused by the spider drive, then sending that data into normal via a relay ship etc.


Why go into Hyper? FTL Comm technology looks for small disturbances on the Alpha Wall so a spider drive in operation should reveal itself as static in FTL Comms as it "grabs" the Alpha Wall to pull itself along.

The GA already has the technology to detect Spider Drives, they just have to realize the similarities and develop the "FTL Radar" adaptation.
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Answers! I got lots of answers!

(Now if I could just find the right questions.)
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Re: GA Strategy, Tactics and Targets
Post by SWM   » Wed May 21, 2014 11:55 am

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n7axw wrote:Thank you, SWM for a very informative post. I want to make it clear that I am exploring ideas here, not arguing. That being said, I wonder...

If some sort of pinging might work, obviously not sonar in the vacuum of space. But perhaps with light or radio equiped drones. The thing is, the stealthed target would be made of material that would be heavily absorbant of whatever sort of detection device it was defending against. But it could be that a low freq radio wave would be absorbed differently by the target than it would be in the vacuum the surrounding space around the target which might be detectable.

If to build a bit on my previous post, using large numbers of drones in crisscrosing patterns should put some drones in a position to pick up heat signature of stealthed target. I presume designating a search pattern developed around last known location allowing for time of transmission from drones.

The key, I would think, would be to implement as many of these sorts of ideas as possible both high tech and low tech. The assumption is that the stealth will be defending against common and probable means of detection and could be vulnerable to something unexpected in the same way that someone with a pulse rifle can still be taken out by a rock from a slingshot coming from an unexpected direction. Most ideas will come up dry, but eventually something will strike paydirt.

Don

Yes, one weakness of a holographic stealth system in the real world is that it is impossible to make it work efficiently at all possible wavelengths. It should be possible to find some wavelengths which it fails to work or produces excess radiation. But, you would have to study some examples of the technology to figure out which were the vulnerable frequencies. Without that prior knowledge, you would have to scan as many frequencies as possible yourself, in hopes of coming across it. That drastically reduces the efficiency of your search.

The heat signature will also be extremely hard to find. The text notes that waste heat is collected and radiated from a very small portion of the ship in a narrow beam. It doesn't give details, but the smartest solution would be to beam it as a maser. If the heat is radiated as a maser, you have almost no chance of spotting it unless you have really vast numbers of detector platforms--especially if the target is deliberately aiming the beam to avoid hitting any detectors it notices.

You're ideas on what to try are spot on. Unfortunately, that doesn't mean it would be easy, even if you found something that worked somewhat. If the system was done right, it could be really hard to find the vulnerability, and really hard to use that vulnerability, too.

Some other more esoteric ideas that have come up in past discussions include:
* using massively powerful tractor beams to scan for unidentified masses
* developing a kind of FTL comm sonar ping (active scanner)
* developing a detector for the odd interaction of the spider drive with the hyperspace interface (passive scanner)
The latter two are pure speculation about the physics of the Honorverse; there is no way to evaluate them without details known only to RFC. All three share the same basic problems that the other methods have--space is big, and it is hard to detect a tiny signal against the background noise.
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Re: GA Strategy, Tactics and Targets
Post by samardza   » Thu May 22, 2014 7:33 pm

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Nasty idea just formed after reading a post on th one liners page ( cthia » Thu May 22, 2014 5:09 am). Harkness has seen the Sollie military computers by now, how about putting together a program to take down the Sol system military computers. Outfit some Ghostrider drones to do the job ans send them into the system from far ouside detection range,
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Re: GA Strategy, Tactics and Targets
Post by Jonathan_S   » Thu May 22, 2014 8:18 pm

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samardza wrote:Nasty idea just formed after reading a post on th one liners page ( cthia » Thu May 22, 2014 5:09 am). Harkness has seen the Sollie military computers by now, how about putting together a program to take down the Sol system military computers. Outfit some Ghostrider drones to do the job ans send them into the system from far ouside detection range,
:D
Although hopefully even the SLN isn't crazy enough to allow code updates from exterior sources; no matter who appears to have digitally signed them.

Although if their security is as sloppy as everything else I guess it's pretty plausible that there could be flaws like buffer overflows in their communication protocols that could be exploited to inject malware into their internal networks. (Far less plausible would be injecting code by manipulating the data their sensors received)


But I guess if anyone could its Harkness :lol:
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Re: GA Strategy, Tactics and Targets
Post by SWM   » Thu May 22, 2014 10:59 pm

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Yeah, not even the Havenites were stupid enough to open their ship systems to external hacking.
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Re: GA Strategy, Tactics and Targets
Post by Jonathan_S   » Thu May 22, 2014 11:53 pm

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SWM wrote:Yeah, not even the Havenites were stupid enough to open their ship systems to external hacking.
Yeah, that would really be an Oops. Or maybe it was. How did she pull that off anyway?
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Re: Honorverse series, the future..?
Post by kzt   » Fri May 23, 2014 12:09 am

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Jonathan_S wrote:
SWM wrote:Yeah, not even the Havenites were stupid enough to open their ship systems to external hacking.
Yeah, that would really be an Oops. Or maybe it was. How did she pull that off anyway?

There are about 3 different theories about that, and they all depend on the fact that she had complete authorized access to their tactical computer system.
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