Defeating a numerically superior enemy.

Hi Laz,

We know Silkians don't like to be thought of as Desnarians, especially because of their similar accents, that their economy tanked after Clinton compelled them to stop trading with Charis, so their antagonism with Desnar and the Go4 is high.

I suspect they'll see the obvious advantages of joining the alliance NTM being truly independent.

So yes, I think most Silkians will support the alliance when it arrives, especially in force.

L

laz wrote:

lyonheart wrote:Hi Tootall,

Given the disarmed Border States, I believe the alliance will advance through them and Dohlar, besides liberating Silkiah to Zion, with BGV landing at Port Home or going up the Zion River to the temple to secure the western temple lands.

will Silkiah want to be liberated? Yes they where making a lot of money but we have no idea how joe citizen feels about the war.

Hi SYED,

If as I expect, when the northern quarter of the IHA is defeated [starved etc] by early summer, BGV will be near Spinefish Bay, only a couple of 5days from Port Home and Zion by ship.

The central armies would advance into the helpless Border States, after destroying the central IHA with ironclads on the river and starvation caused by scout snipers on the Fairmyn river etc, the most likely result being that they're generally added to the republic, or join the alliance.

Once the southern portions of the IHA are defeated, the alliance armies can proceed along the coast of the Bay of Bess to the Sabana river or the one in Tanshar, supplied by the ICN and thus avoiding using the Langhorne canal while being nominally around only 63 days from Zion, too quick for much of a defense, but as I've pointed out before, a great distraction for what BGV's surprise appearance.

Thus I see the alliance restoring and expanding the republic's borders pretty soon, without too much reliance on captured canals.

L

SYED wrote:Just like how the church used the canal system to expand, the republic and imperial forces will use the canal to advance into the border lands. THe thing is if the church can control their retreat and fall back, and damage the canal, so slow down any invasion buying gtime.

Hi Tootall,

Okay, now I gotcha.

My impression after the IHA is dealt with is that the Go4 won't have that much with which to defend itself, so the alliance can advance almost at will, with whatever supplies left behind [Churchill supplies] might speed the alliance on its way, given any attempt to burn them would be put out by the locals (even TL's) after the Go4's troops left.

Regarding alliance logistics, the EoC has shipped in a lot of draft dragons, and shipping a lot in from Corisande is now quite easy, probably a far faster and much greater addition to alliance capabilities than Windshare's relatively small cavalry force ever could be.

Then there's the question of whether the ICA has bicycles yet, and can advance along the largely flat high roads at ~60+ miles per day, or half again as fast as the Go4 expects.

L

tootall wrote:lyonheart wrote:

I'm not sure what you mean by defensible borders

All the island areas are "defensible".
When Green Valley takes Guarnak, Hildermoss becomes "defensible" because of better logistics, movement advantages, and tactics. I'm not saying they can hold it- but they can certainly defeat any Church force that comes to them. I think the same is going to be true in Cliff Peak. I think the same will be true in the South March lands-(Thesmar up to the mountain chain at Riverfork.)

That's what I meant by defensible borders. (and those "defensible borders" do not retake all of Siddermark that has been lost)
Attacking into the border states-and into Dohlar and into Silkah seems difficult. The church gets to play defense- supply lines and manpower reserves are closer. The church forces are dug in with their next generation weapons. And the Church's manpower advantage comes into play. The Empire's supply lines are less secure. Their mobility advantage is reduced because they are attacking particlar targets.
So, I interested to see how "Runsfor" handles these offensive problems in the next book.

While the church knows that charis is a threat, how much of their forces would have been position to deal with an enemy from the north. We know that charis damaged canal they need to use to transport supplies, but did they destroy the canals which while allowing their escape, did not aid the church in their logistics.
Even if they are damaged, if aforce is move to their and supplied, they could advance using the existing roads. Most of the military would be placed to hold off the enemy are locations aimed more to the south, and with the canals damaged, less able to shift forces, so what chruch force present could be dealt with in detail, piecemeal each time.
We know that their forward forces are stuck with out proper supplies and logistic, they will either retreat or hold to face the enemy, but that could allow for forces.
If properly armed, then any force present would be able to stop them from reaching a bigger target. and they would not have been a priority for the church to reinforce to begin with.

Hi all. My first post, and as I just finished LAMA I thought I'd give the forum a visit while waiting for the next instalment.
I'm no military expert, but it seems like we are talking force multipliers.The best one is already in place:
The foe is an enemy whose awoved goal is not only to defeat you but to tortue you to death if you are captured, and not only you but your comrades, family, friends. that's got to be a powerful multiplier.
Your industrial base is a given.
Here is one that I havn't seen mentioned yet, and it's especially relevant after LAMA, where large industrial scale cartridge manefacture has been started: The Gatling.

Arol wrote:Hi all. My first post, and as I just finished LAMA I thought I'd give the forum a visit while waiting for the next instalment.
I'm no military expert, but it seems like we are talking force multipliers.The best one is already in place:
The foe is an enemy whose awoved goal is not only to defeat you but to tortue you to death if you are captured, and not only you but your comrades, family, friends. that's got to be a powerful multiplier.
Your industrial base is a given.
Here is one that I havn't seen mentioned yet, and it's especially relevant after LAMA, where large industrial scale cartridge manefacture has been started: The Gatling.

I know people have a thing for Gatling guns, but the Gardiner gun is superior weapon. It's easier to manufacuture, the operator is less exposed, and it is the direct predecessor for the Hiram Machine Gun. All in all it makes more sense to start with the Gardiner gun. Especially since the Mandrahyn ploy backfired.

Metallic cartridges are only starting to be manufactured at the end of LAMA. They have not been used yet and it's likely that it will take until the second half of the current year until their are sufficient weapons and ammunition available to justify their introduction to the battlefield.

When they are introduced, COGA will be unable to copy the concept until they have solved the problem of standardization. I see that taking at least 2-5 years, at which point the current war will likely be over or in it's final stages. Machine guns are likely going to be a weapon for the next war when the great lie is revealed.

I was taught that all other things being equal, the side that fires the most bullets will win. By that philosophy, more numbers is only helpful insofar as two guns fire faster than one. No doubt a sufficiently large force imbalance could overcome that calculus, but I'd say its close enough to be going on with.

That said, you'll understand why I get a little excited when people claim that M16 breakdowns can be avoided by proper daily maintenance and exercising fire control discipline while simultaneously teaching these kids to fire more rounds than their adversaries, whose weapons will literally catch fire before breaking down while keeping them so busy that performing the requisite maintenance in a timely fashion is nigh on impossible.

Undercover Fat Kid wrote:I was taught that all other things being equal, the side that fires the most bullets will win. By that philosophy, more numbers is only helpful insofar as two guns fire faster than one. No doubt a sufficiently large force imbalance could overcome that calculus, but I'd say its close enough to be going on with.

That said, you'll understand why I get a little excited when people claim that M16 breakdowns can be avoided by proper daily maintenance and exercising fire control discipline while simultaneously teaching these kids to fire more rounds than their adversaries, whose weapons will literally catch fire before breaking down while keeping them so busy that performing the requisite maintenance in a timely fashion is nigh on impossible.

The differentiator is aimed fire. Just whanging rounds downrange doesn't keep the enemy's head down, it's when the rounds are actually flying around his ears. That takes marksmanship training and practice, which the ICA has. I would be surprised if the CoGA does to the same extent.

The harchong army is huge, and has alot of rifles, but with all the weapon ry i have heard them supplied with, there is no news or grenades or artillery. Sure they will have some, but i am thinking they will find they might have numbers but not the fire power.

DO we know the size of the dohlar navy now under thirsk? THe thing is they either support the navy or the army in the short term. I am thinking that with the destruction of the invasion force, most support will be sent via the army, and not till it is too late that charis is sending sea forces as well.
THe church does not care about dohlar, what they want is the navy intact? The thing is they hate thirsk. THirsk wants to protect his kingdom, but he is beset by church and nobility.

If navy is destroyed, and the gulf raided and burnt. THere is no true naval threat to the imperium.

If the republic can secure its borders, it could hold off the rest of the mainland. There are two avenues of attack, from the south and the west. SOuth dohlar and silkiah can be dealt with and secured. THe thing is while the canal is the best way to enter from the west, it is possible that they could send forces anywhere on the border states border. I suppose that they could use owl to locate those regions to be most likely used, geographicly, tactically and logistically speaking, but plenty of raiders could travel though.

Undercover Fat Kid wrote:I was taught that all other things being equal, the side that fires the most bullets will win. By that philosophy, more numbers is only helpful insofar as two guns fire faster than one. No doubt a sufficiently large force imbalance could overcome that calculus, but I'd say its close enough to be going on with.

Nah, that completely ignores maneuver. Which is usually far more decisive.

And HOW you fire can be just as important.

My usual example perfectly illustrate it, Swedish 17th century army style of engagement.
Get the other side to start shooting at you, then advance until either 30-50m away if you´re going to fire twice, or 10-30m if only once. Then have everyone fire together.
Then chaaaarge.

The enemies fire maybe 2-6 times as many shots, but few will hit at longer range.
While "we" only fire at highly effective range AND all at once, and at close range this is like throwing modern flashbang grenades right into the enemies face, most of them are then effectively stunned while getting charged.

*ouchy*