(Spoiler warning) Does everyone have Clyntahn figured wrong?

Well, I was wrong. I'm re-reading LaMA for the first time, and I've reached a meeting between Clyntahn and Rayno. In it Clyntahn feels disappointment that the estimates of production improvements Lyncahn made were accurate. The primary reason he's disappointed is that Clyntahn feels that Lyncahn is straying too far from the proscriptions. The secondary reason is that killing Lyncahn would weaken Magwair's power. So, it looks like everyone should protect their geniuses.

~Tonto

Why not find a way to test him? SAy charis creates desins to create canals in harchong, they are then stolen by the church. would he give them to harchong to help them, or would he just be paranoid aabout them.

SYED wrote:Why not find a way to test him? SAy charis creates desins to create canals in harchong, they are then stolen by the church. would he give them to harchong to help them, or would he just be paranoid aabout them.

They have been stealing Charisian tech all along. That is how they've stayed in the game.

Don

I believe his working plan is

#1) Smite Charis and Siddarmark, raze them to the ground, plow them with salt, and hang every innovator, e..g, anyone who wears machine-woven cloth.

#2) Purify the Church of all heretics, for starters by killing all your own innovators and their heretic allies.

phillies wrote:I believe his working plan is

#1) Smite Charis and Siddarmark, raze them to the ground, plow them with salt, and hang every innovator, e..g, anyone who wears machine-woven cloth.

#2) Purify the Church of all heretics, for starters by killing all your own innovators and their heretic allies.

Well, I agree with most of that except that I think he wants to hang everyone in Charis-
including the cat lizards.

It will be a nasty (fun for us) scene in Zion when they discuss the losses of the last campaigh season -And Green Valley is about to take Gurnack, which will cut off and destroy yet another army. Based upon those losses we may see a more reasonable Grand Inquisitor as far as innovations are concerned...and a much more vindictive one when it comes to assigning blame and punishing those who have failed. (Interestingly enough in LAMA he blames both Magwiar and Duchairn for the great canal raid. (Does that forshadow either or both of them being "detained" and "questioned" as "possible" heritic sympathizers?)

Given Charisian naval activity in the Gulf, Admiral Thrisk's day of "blame" is fast approaching.

Now in regards to Thirsk, I would love to see the day someone learns how his family is being held hostage and Charis has them rescued while Thirsk and his minion defects to the side of Charis.

IIRC it is common knowledge that his family is "under the protection" of the Inquistition.

However, there's no evidence that he wants to defect and even if he does want to defect, there's no evidence that Charis knows about it.

IMO without knowledge that Thirsk wants to defect, Charis runs the risk of Thirsk believing that Charis kidnapped his family in order to blackmail him.

In other words, Charis would not rescue Thirsk's family without knowing that Thirsk wants to defect because doing so could make Thirsk an even greater enemy of Charis.

Steambucket wrote:Now in regards to Thirsk, I would love to see the day someone learns how his family is being held hostage and Charis has them rescued while Thirsk and his minion defects to the side of Charis.

We know the inquistion has been stealing as much as thry, can so why not use this against them? Use the broadsheets to sppread as muich low level theories and knowledge to the world at large, nothing to directly aid the war, just putting knowledge out there. Especially the church discoveries. The inquisition has been holding on to the hope that after the war, the new idea can be burned away and removed by killing the few that know. But if the knowledge is spread everywheere, the genie bottle has forever been smashed.
Make it seem that only the inquisition could be the ones spreading the knowledge.

SYED wrote:We know the inquistion has been stealing as much as they can, so why not use this against them? Use the broadsheets to sppread as muich low level theories and knowledge to the world at large, nothing to directly aid the war, just putting knowledge out there. Especially the church discoveries. The inquisition has been holding on to the hope that after the war, the new idea can be burned away and removed by killing the few that know. But if the knowledge is spread everywhere, the genie bottle has forever been smashed.
Make it seem that only the inquisition could be the ones spreading the knowledge.

For starters they can't be that obviously self-destructive from their own perspective. People in Siddermark and in Charis know how much the new innovations have helped ensure their survival to date so handing weapons to the enemy would be suicidal. While getting those innovations spread as broadly as possible is Merlin's (and now Nimue's) ultimate goal in order the generate an unstoppable scientific revolution, they can't just hand that knowledge over if they want people to think scientifically about the natural world.

It's Merlin's conversation with Cayleb and Staynair back in BSRA that presents the guiding principle: to force innovation within Charis so that the Church of God Awaiting is forced to innovate in response. If they don't then they can't hope to defeat Charis militarily. If they do, then they lose philosophically as they become more like Charis. Clyntahn may hope to be able to eliminate all of the innovators on his side after his supposedly inevitable victory over Charis, he may hope to limit the innovators to as small a number as possible and he may hope to "acquire" the knowledge and technology he needs from Charis without having his side "contaminated" by such evil knowledge and attitudes. Yet ultimately this is self defeating since we see how Charis' attitude is increasing the number of innovators it has while we can still count the number of innovators on the Church's side on both hands.

BTW I'd also like to read the conversation between the members of the Group of Four when the winter ends and messages start arriving in Zion about the ass kicking Desnair and Dohlar received in southern Siddermark, the defeat of Wyrshym's Army of the Sylman in a winter campaign and Sharpfield's attack on Gorath. I have a feeling that with the decimation of the Desnairian Army, the Church is likely to have it's hands full just trying to prevent massive unrest within the Desnairian Empire. I also think that with Sir Rainos Ahlverez and the remainder of his army trying to evade capture coupled with the defeat Thirsk is likely to suffer at sea, Dohlar is likely to go up in flames as well. With reinforcements, Eastshare is likely to move on Kaitswyrth and if he decides to hold to last man the Church will be entirely dependent upon the only army is has left, Harchong. Then what do they do?

Hi Thanatos,

I always enjoy your comments, I wish there were a lot more.

The Earl of High Mount's Army of Cliff Peak is much closer to the Daivyn than DE, but Symkyn can destroy Kaitswyrth before he gets there, since he outnumbers Kaitswyrth several times in both rifles, artillery, and scout capability.

Given the many couriers trying to find Ahlverez, to warn the base at Sumyrs is gone, the Go4 knows what happened to the AoJ, nor do they appear to hold hum responsible for all the Desnari mistakes, at least at the moment.

It's been a while since we saw the Go4 meet, any discussion will be very informative about a lot of things, so I'm looking forward to at least a few in HFQ.

L


[quote="thanatos"][quote="SYED"]We know the inquistion has been stealing as much as they can, so why not use this against them? Use the broadsheets to sppread as muich low level theories and knowledge to the world at large, nothing to directly aid the war, just putting knowledge out there. Especially the church discoveries. The inquisition has been holding on to the hope that after the war, the new idea can be burned away and removed by killing the few that know. But if the knowledge is spread everywhere, the genie bottle has forever been smashed.
Make it seem that only the inquisition could be the ones spreading the knowledge.[/quote]

For starters they can't be that obviously self-destructive from their own perspective. People in Siddermark and in Charis know how much the new innovations have helped ensure their survival to date so handing weapons to the enemy would be suicidal. While getting those innovations spread as broadly as possible is Merlin's (and now Nimue's) ultimate goal in order the generate an unstoppable scientific revolution, they can't just hand that knowledge over if they want people to think [i]scientifically[/i] about the natural world.

It's Merlin's conversation with Cayleb and Staynair back in BSRA that presents the guiding principle: to force innovation within Charis so that the Church of God Awaiting is forced to innovate in response. If they don't then they can't hope to defeat Charis militarily. If they do, then they lose philosophically as they become more like Charis. Clyntahn may hope to be able to eliminate all of the innovators on his side after his supposedly inevitable victory over Charis, he may hope to limit the innovators to as small a number as possible and he may hope to "acquire" the knowledge and technology he needs from Charis without having his side "contaminated" by such evil knowledge and attitudes. Yet ultimately this is self defeating since we see how Charis' attitude is increasing the number of innovators it has while we can still count the number of innovators on the Church's side on both hands.

BTW I'd also like to read the conversation between the members of the Group of Four when the winter ends and messages start arriving in Zion about the ass kicking Desnair and Dohlar received in southern Siddermark, the defeat of Wyrshym's Army of the Sylman in a [i]winter campaign[/i] and Sharpfield's attack on Gorath. I have a feeling that with the decimation of the Desnairian Army, the Church is likely to have it's hands full just trying to prevent massive unrest within the Desnairian Empire. I also think that with Sir Rainos Ahlverez and the remainder of his army trying to evade capture coupled with the defeat Thirsk is likely to suffer at sea, Dohlar is likely to go up in flames as well. With reinforcements, Eastshare is likely to move on Kaitswyrth and if he decides to hold to last man the Church will be entirely dependent upon the only army is has left, Harchong. Then what do they do?[/quote]