Defections form the Vicar council

With the recent land victories by Charis and Siddmark. How soon do we begin to see cracks in council of Vicars. With a Charisan army right on their door step, i imagine a number of them might be thinking of defecting to the winning side at this point. Also some of those Vicars who survive the first purge by Clyntahn might be thinking if they will survive the 2nd purge if Clyntahn thinks a 2nd purge is needed to strengthen his power.

xellos^_- wrote:With the recent land victories by Charis and Siddmark. How soon do we begin to see cracks in council of Vicars. With a Charisan army right on their door step, i imagine a number of them might be thinking of defecting to the winning side at this point. Also some of those Vicars who survive the first purge by Clyntahn might be thinking if they will survive the 2nd purge if Clyntahn thinks a 2nd purge is needed to strengthen his power.

Quite frankly I don't think we do. First because this is a religious war and for the leadership, whatever their opinion of one another the Charisians represent heresy and godlessness. It takes a long time for someone who is devout in their beliefs to be willing to compromise with satanic forces (Which to the Vicars is what the Church of Charis is). While the series makes this into a thinly disguised mirror of the Reformation/Counter-reformation battles a closer comparison given the doctrines in several of the Safeholdian religious texts might be the comparison between Sunni and Shia faiths. That battle is only been going on since around AD 1000 or so and is still what's behind the actions in Syria and Iraq right now. So while they might not like one another they won't crack as such. On the other hand a struggle for who is in charge at the top might occur. Not cracks, no, but a coup, oh my yes, that I can certainly see.
Secondly while they might despise one another, they also (every one of them) know just how quickly Charis would exploit any cracks. "We must all hang together or we will assuredly hang separately" was good advice in Ben Franklin's day and it will be in their thinking now.

Besides, why should these momentary setbacks cause them to crack? War has it's losses and defeats, but you don't give up. Did Britian give up after the defeat at Dunkirk? No it soldiered on. Did the Russians surrender to either Napoleon or Hitler? No. The gang of four know they have millions upon millions of Harchongese soldiers being trained and equipped right there in the Temple lands and Border states. Sure they took it on the chin (no doubt due to filthy turncoats or bad generals) along the Siddarmark border, but those reverses are only temporary (at least in their minds) "Send in the Commissars, err excuse me, Inquisitors to punish the under performing slackers/traitors to the cause and victory will surely be ours!" will be their battle cry.
They will send in massive armies equipped with (at least some of them will be equipped with) better weapons than the last group and hope for better outcomes, especially after they hang a few generals as examples of what failure brings to the rest.

So a coup yes, cracks no.

Larry

Hi Laary,

I'm not expecting any defections among the remaining vicarate, especially since we've seen no textev of any such hint since the purge.

It will be interesting to see how soon the alliance deals with the IHA, which is inferred by the working tittle HFQ, leaving the temple obviously naked to future attack.

But will we see Duchairn's coup at the end of HFQ or have to wait for #9?

Would RFC be that torturous?

Constant reader sayeth not.

L

Larry wrote:

xellos^_- wrote:With the recent land victories by Charis and Siddmark. How soon do we begin to see cracks in council of Vicars. With a Charisan army right on their door step, i imagine a number of them might be thinking of defecting to the winning side at this point. Also some of those Vicars who survive the first purge by Clyntahn might be thinking if they will survive the 2nd purge if Clyntahn thinks a 2nd purge is needed to strengthen his power.

Quite frankly I don't think we do. First because this is a religious war and for the leadership, whatever their opinion of one another the Charisians represent heresy and godlessness. It takes a long time for someone who is devout in their beliefs to be willing to compromise with satanic forces (Which to the Vicars is what the Church of Charis is). While the series makes this into a thinly disguised mirror of the Reformation/Counter-reformation battles a closer comparison given the doctrines in several of the Safeholdian religious texts might be the comparison between Sunni and Shia faiths. That battle is only been going on since around AD 1000 or so and is still what's behind the actions in Syria and Iraq right now. So while they might not like one another they won't crack as such. On the other hand a struggle for who is in charge at the top might occur. Not cracks, no, but a coup, oh my yes, that I can certainly see.
Secondly while they might despise one another, they also (every one of them) know just how quickly Charis would exploit any cracks. "We must all hang together or we will assuredly hang separately" was good advice in Ben Franklin's day and it will be in their thinking now.

Besides, why should these momentary setbacks cause them to crack? War has it's losses and defeats, but you don't give up. Did Britian give up after the defeat at Dunkirk? No it soldiered on. Did the Russians surrender to either Napoleon or Hitler? No. The gang of four know they have millions upon millions of Harchongese soldiers being trained and equipped right there in the Temple lands and Border states. Sure they took it on the chin (no doubt due to filthy turncoats or bad generals) along the Siddarmark border, but those reverses are only temporary (at least in their minds) "Send in the Commissars, err excuse me, Inquisitors to punish the under performing slackers/traitors to the cause and victory will surely be ours!" will be their battle cry.
They will send in massive armies equipped with (at least some of them will be equipped with) better weapons than the last group and hope for better outcomes, especially after they hang a few generals as examples of what failure brings to the rest.

So a coup yes, cracks no.

Larry

I think some Vicars would run/defect if for no other reason then self preservation and to get the hell away from Clynthan. That being said, I think the fear of failing to escape would prevent it from happening.

Direwolf18 wrote:I think some Vicars would run/defect if for no other reason then self preservation and to get the hell away from Clynthan. That being said, I think the fear of failing to escape would prevent it from happening.

No...at the risk of breaking Godwin's Law (I plead necessity), consider the Nazis. How many defected until Berlin was literally burning? Hess??? Maybe kinda'??? And how did that work out? It simply was not an option.

To be fair, comparing the Vicarate to the Nazi's would be unfair. The Inquisition sure, they are part of the ruling party. The vicar's have next to 0 say in how things are being run, and they know it. They don't believe in Clynthan, they fear for their lives.

THe group of 4 did have alot of vicars killed, so that is a great way to make enemies. If their position is weakned or the church it self is threatened enough, then I could see a Coup happening. If merlin start a rumor that the head of the inquisition is secretly a shang wei worshiper trying to harm the church, they could use this lie to justify apposing him and blaming all the church ill on him.

SYED wrote:THe group of 4 did have alot of vicars killed, so that is a great way to make enemies. If their position is weakned or the church it self is threatened enough, then I could see a Coup happening. If merlin start a rumor that the head of the inquisition is secretly a shang wei worshiper trying to harm the church, they could use this lie to justify apposing him and blaming all the church ill on him.

Yes a coup of some sort would be far more likely than mass defections of the vicarate.

We know someone is killing vicars, what if some one is trying to rig the council to eliminate the Group of 4 support base, and empower those most likely be able to oppose and remove them in the future. It has been said those vicars supported the inquisitor and was in his power. DO we know who will be raised to take their place?

IIRC David Weber said that nobody had been raised to replace the Circle Vicars (killed earlier).

If so, then I doubt that those Vicars will be replaced.

SYED wrote:We know someone is killing vicars, what if some one is trying to rig the council to eliminate the Group of 4 support base, and empower those most likely be able to oppose and remove them in the future. It has been said those vicars supported the inquisitor and was in his power. DO we know who will be raised to take their place?