Hyperspace Combat and the Solarian Leauge Navy

Alizon wrote:Well, there are all sorts of counter moves that GA forces could and probably would employ against this tactic. But the real question is, would they. If I were the GA commander the last thing I would expect to find is an entire SLN fleet lying in wait for me in hyper. Chances are that in such a case I'm going to value keeping all my ships near me so that if something weird does happen we're all, or as much as possible, in mutual support distance of each other.

In this instance I park the fleet in either a lower or higher hyperband than I suspect you are using. I map out where my fleet is positioned in relation to the band I think you'll use so I have a very good idea of where I'll be when I translate either up or down. I then station light units in the area I expect you to move through and if they see your fleet move through that volume of space they translate into the band that my fleet is in and the fleet translates into the band you are in, hopefully in up close and personal rang

Alizon wrote:

SYED wrote:DO we know much about their energy weapons? We know they still use projectiles in their point defence. Manticore heavily uses grasers over lasers, but the solly might just have lasers. Also, dont forget, the manites have epic ECM systems to help hide and protect themselves.

Actually, I believe we do. It's noted that some of the most ancient SD's in the reserve fleet which comprises several thousand SD's some of which haven't been in commission in centuries do use autocannon point defense systems, but these haven't been used in hundreds of years by SLN regular forces.

You can also get a pretty decent overview of the SLN Vega class SD's from the battle of Talbot which should be representative of current SLN SD design and I believe that section gives some information on energy beam armament which includes Grasers.

I think it's important to remember that SLN forces are not obsolescent hunks of steel anywhere else in the galaxy other than in the Haven Sector. The technology used by active SLN units is probably at least equivalent or most likely somewhat better than that used by Manticore and the Peeps during much of their first conflict (which started in "A Short Victorious War"). It's really only when facing fleets at long range armed with MDM's and superior missile fire control that the SLN becomes hopelessly outclassed.

As such, SLN SD's are designed to use missiles during the early phases of an engagement to soften up and hopefully disable the sidewalls of enemy Wallers, maybe even damage a few. The primary weapon of decision during this time was the Grasers of the Wall of Battle. SLN ships are still constructed for that form of combat and their officers and crews are trained for it.

On the other hand GA vessels are designed for a new form of combat where the long range MDM with powerful laser heads are the weapons of decision. Fleets rare come within energy beam of each other (read never)and in which grasers more commonly used to fend of LAC attacks than other Ships of the Wall.

In creating these new missile optimized vessels, there have undoubtedly been some design compromises to optimize the vessels for missile combat which probably have impacted the number and type of energy weapons mounted. It's also likely that the optimal arrangement of armored protection to guard against hundreds of laserheads attacking from all angles is also subtly different from the optimal arrangement for defending against capital ship Grasers at short range so while such vessels still need to be incredibly tough, it's quite possible that there could be some weaknesses in their protective scheme when confronted with a different type of attack than they were optimized to repel.

That isn't to say that an Invictus class SD isn't a fearsome opponent at any range, but it is also fair to say that her energy weapon capabilies and training in close range combat, even her protective scheme for close range energy combant are the weakest points of her design and the combat evolution her crews and officers are least familiar with. On the other hand, SLN ships and crews are designed and trained for exactly this form of combat which means that it is in this kind of engagement that SLN forces most closely approach or possibly exceed Manticorian capabilities.

Republican vessels are probably have even more pronounced problems with this threat environment. In order to attempt to remain effective against RMN vessels, modern Republican designs have been ruthlessly optimized to create vessels fully optimize for pod laying long range combat. Chances are most of their energy weaponry is optimized for engaging the only combatants which would reasonably approach within energy weapons range, Manticorian LAC's. Grasers and Lasers optimized for this role will probably be more numerous and smaller with faster tracking and engagement capabilities than those designed to punch through the sidewalls and armor of Wallers. This is great for LAC's not so good if you actually have to face off against a SLN Waller at close range. Now, Republican designs may still retain some massive ship killers just in case, but it also wouldn't surprise me if their SD designs were almost entirely equipped with these smaller more flexible mounts. This could pose a serious problem for any Republican SD forced into this sort of close range combat.

Andermani vessels probably haven't been optimized to the same extent simply because they haven't needed to be. Yes, they've been involved in the Haven wars but not as extensively or for as long. Chances are there are enough old salts who grew up with Grasers and Lasers to maintain a more balanced approach to their designs.

Of course, non-podlaying vessels in the reserves of the GA are are, like SLN SD's, designed for this form of combat so such vessels, if any are deployed in front line fleet formations (which they probably won't be, at least initially) will be better equipped to deal with this form of combat and will almost certainly be superior, ship for ship, than anything the SLN can throw at them.

n7axw wrote:We know that Technodyne was selling tech to Haven to keep Peeps within shouting distance of RMN. They never do catch Manties, so one wonders just how advanced pre-Buttercup Solly Tech actually was. Of course, they would have been selling Haven the export version had the transactions been completely above board. But they weren't completely legal given the embargo to which the Sollies assented to keep their junction fees from going through the roof. What that might mean is that those tech transfers would have included tech considerably better than normal League policy would have allowed, but still not on a par with Manticore's latest.

kzt wrote:IIRC, a Technodyne exec served on the corporate board that runs Mesa, as the Technodyne rep. So it's hardly a secret that Technodyne and Mesa are closely tied.

Weird Harold wrote:So where was the "Sollie Tech" provided to Haven by TIY coming from? The League or Mesa?

kzt wrote:

Weird Harold wrote:So where was the "Sollie Tech" provided to Haven by TIY coming from? The League or Mesa?

You'll have to get someone with access to David's background notes to answer that. Good luck with that, at least before the SL/MA book comes out.

Weird Harold wrote:The more this is discussed, the less impressed with SLN tech levels. I think it is possible, even probable, that the PRN as of OBS was better than the SLN of 1920 PD; both tactically and technologically.

Jonathan_S wrote:Jumping up might work better; but we don't know if the 0.3 c limit on leaving n-space also applies to jumping up a hyper band -- if it does then again you're at a significant speed disadvantage.