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SL support of terrorists

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SL support of terrorists
Post by biochem   » Sun May 04, 2014 9:47 pm

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The SL has long supported terrorist actions in the frontier systems in order to give the OFS an excuse to move in. Over the millennia they have probably gotten rather good at it. Now Manticore and the other key members of the GA aren't as weak as the governments, they are used to dealing with. But still people are people and I'm sure that the SL department of terrorism can find some familiar holes to exploit. So when are we going to start seeing significant terrorist attacks on Manticore itself? It wouldn't take much, look at how much trouble a couple of guys caused with a pair of pressure cookers and some ball bearings last year in Boston. In Honorverse, look at how many Marines etc were tied up trying to find Agnes Nordbrandt's group. It's a low cost way for the SL to put civilian pressure on the governments to divert support away from the front lines.
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Re: SL support of terrorists
Post by kzt   » Sun May 04, 2014 10:11 pm

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The peeps were hardly slackers at that game...
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Re: SL support of terrorists
Post by Weird Harold   » Sun May 04, 2014 10:29 pm

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biochem wrote:The SL has long supported terrorist actions in the frontier systems in order to give the OFS an excuse to move in. Over the millennia they have probably gotten rather good at it. Now Manticore and the other key members of the GA aren't as weak as the governments, they are used to dealing with. But still people are people and I'm sure that the SL department of terrorism can find some familiar holes to exploit. ...


I think there is a bit of split personality to the League. OFS and Frontier Fleet engage is such covert operations, but the core systems and central bureaucracy don't think in terms of getting their own hands dirty.

secondly, the "holes" in Manticoran society are much smaller than OFS agitators are used to working with and the "borders" are much less porous, so arms smuggling would be far more difficult.

If there is any "fifth column" activity going on in the GA home fronts, I would expect the MAlign to be behind it and for it to be more sophisticated than pressure cooker bombs.
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Re: SL support of terrorists
Post by Garth 2   » Mon May 05, 2014 2:40 am

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Actually in of its self its not a bad idea, we know that the Manticore home system not only has an organised criminal element - "The Organisation" but also has holes in its security/border controls (as seen in Ruthless).

Admittedly it would be quite hard to get started, as there are insufficient people who feel disenfranchised or "that violence is the only solution" to an un-liked government.

Also too many people know what would happen when OFS moves in, meaning that getting popular support would be effectively impossible.

The same would be true for pretty much every member of the Manticore Alliance/Haven about the only place it could work is the ex-Confederacy systems but the turn around times would mean it would have limited impact on the war front.

Even when SEM was dealing with Agnes Nordbrandt's group, it didn't tie up that many Imperial resources.
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Re: SL support of terrorists
Post by Hutch   » Mon May 05, 2014 8:40 am

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It's not a half-bad idea, and given that the SL has pretty well figured out that any type of 'symmetrical' warfare with the GA is a losing proposition, then looking for 'asymmetrical' means (such as the commerce raiding that was approved in ART) is going to be paramount.

However, as mentioned above, finding dissedent groups willing (1) To take violent action and (2) risk getting their A***s shot off, is rather hard to do, especially in democratic societies (not that they don't exist, mind you, but they are often as not already infiltrated by said government and not supported by the mass of people).

Still, Silesia, perhaps some of the Talbott systems, even Havenite worlds that have significant 'unreconstructed' Peeps or even a few die-hard Levellers could be used.

Problem is, distance, lack of knowledge of the systems ("but he doesn't know the territory"), developing the contacts and the level of trust with those of a violent bent, this takes knowledge, patience (to establish trust), and TIME. And those are things that the SL does not have in any great quantity.

Moreover, between the MAlign actions and groups taking note that the OFS and FF are suddenly...preoccupied...elsewhere, and the SL has more to worry about than the GA--because all the trading and dealings the MMM (and for that matter, the Beowulf Biological Survey Corps) have done means the GA has a much better knowledge of the 'fault points' of the SL that the SL has of the SEM/RH.

Still, it would be something some of the more ambitious folks out on the Frontier may try--(if you've never read "Wasp" by Eric Frank Russell, I recommend it to you).

Well shall see--eventually. Or not, as the MWW dispotheth.

IMHO as always. YMMV.
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What? Look, somebody's got to have some damn perspective around here! Boom. Sooner or later. BOOM! -LT. Cmdr. Susan Ivanova, Babylon 5
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Re: SL support of terrorists
Post by Bill Woods   » Mon May 05, 2014 3:07 pm

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Hutch wrote:Problem is, distance, lack of knowledge of the systems ("but he doesn't know the territory"), ...
Experience suggests it wouldn't be impossible to gin up some trouble in River City.
Still, it would be something some of the more ambitious folks out on the Frontier may try--(if you've never read "Wasp" by Eric Frank Russell, I recommend it to you).
Seconded.
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Imagined conversation:
Admiral [noting yet another Manty tech surprise]:
XO, what's the budget for the ONI?
Vice Admiral: I don't recall exactly, sir. Several billion quatloos.
Admiral: ... What do you suppose they did with all that money?
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Re: SL support of terrorists
Post by namelessfly   » Mon May 05, 2014 3:20 pm

namelessfly

There is near zero probability of inciting terrorism in the Manticoran home system or Grayson. Haven might be more vulnerable until faith in the restored Consitution solidifies.

Silesia is more vulnerable but the distance and lack of wormhole access makes it a logistical nightmare.

Systems in the Verge and Shell are another matter. OFS has vast experience with these systems and knows the societies well. Access via hyperspace is not a problem. The GA does not have the resources to interdict.
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Re: SL support of terrorists
Post by SYED   » Mon May 05, 2014 3:34 pm

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In the verge, they had the backing of the transtellars, smuggling and tech advantage to gain access to the terrorists and supply them, while hiding their involvement. In manticore, while there is crime and corruption, it is less likely they would want to get involved with such a deal.

Also, the fact of the matter, such a plan is a long term project, especially with their contraints. It would seem a better idea to encourage pirates and raiders. They need to build a network, and foundations first for such a plan.
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Re: SL support of terrorists
Post by TheMonster   » Mon May 05, 2014 7:17 pm

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namelessfly wrote:There is near zero probability of inciting terrorism in the Manticoran home system or Grayson.
Yeah because there aren't any fundamentalists left there who think it's a good idea to sabotage a building and kill schoolchildren.

Oh, wait a minute. There are such fundamentalists but they're deep in hiding, biding their time until they think they can accomplish something by their next move.
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Re: SL support of terrorists
Post by namelessfly   » Mon May 05, 2014 9:45 pm

namelessfly

TheMonster wrote:
namelessfly wrote:There is near zero probability of inciting terrorism in the Manticoran home system or Grayson.
Yeah because there aren't any fundamentalists left there who think it's a good idea to sabotage a building and kill schoolchildren.

Oh, wait a minute. There are such fundamentalists but they're deep in hiding, biding their time until they think they can accomplish something by their next move.



That was what, 15 years ago in book time?
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