How Close is Biological Immortality?

The question is pretty self-evident, but I will expand a bit.

Prolong seems to grant an increased life span of somewhere between two and three hundred years, plus whatever years added on after the prolong effects have worn off, which with the Honorverse's medical advances should mean that most average humans should be able to hit the 3 century mark, counting prolong.

However, Albrecht Detwiler states/muses that the Detwiler genome, due to being the most modified and advanced of the alpha lines, should see at least a half-millenia, or 500 years, if not more. Assuming that is correct, most of the other alpha lines should be hovering around 400 years.

So how close is complete immortality? Can it only be achieved by those who have been heavily gene modified for the purpose? Or will a form(s) of prolong be developed that extend life indefinitely?

Westbrook 49 wrote:However, Albrecht Detwiler states/muses that the Detwiler genome, due to being the most modified and advanced of the alpha lines, should see at least a half-millenia, or 500 years, if not more. Assuming that is correct, most of the other alpha lines should be hovering around 400 years.

Albrecht is overly optimistic. He couldn't be a proper super-villian without overstating his abillities by at least double "normals" life expectancy.

I think even if he's right, statistics will kill off everyone before biology will get a chance to; actual immortality is probably unobtainable through biological means. The longer someone lives, the greater the statistical certainty that a fatal accident will happen to them.

I suspect that third-generation prolong hasn't been around long enough to determine what the true life expectancy will be. Theoretical immortality may have already been achieved, but death by accident will keep anyone from noticing.

Technically it is possible. Jelly fish are able in dire circumstance to become young again. And some seeds and spores can hibernate. But most of the jelly fish that can be immortal don't and just die off or get eaten.

But if you could engineer a regenerating organ capability as long as one has food one could live for ever or a long time.

Bit of a problem as time is a perspective thing and not really a progression. One might wonder if one ages in hyperspace while in the real universe pretty much everything starts and stops eventually.

Prolong doesn't seem to be an Immortality thing rather some kind of health extension puberty thing.

Given how many persons get close to light speed in the Honorverse ages could vary relatively all over the place. Heck compensators might affect ages.

Westbrook 49 wrote:The question is pretty self-evident, but I will expand a bit.

Prolong seems to grant an increased life span of somewhere between two and three hundred years, plus whatever years added on after the prolong effects have worn off, which with the Honorverse's medical advances should mean that most average humans should be able to hit the 3 century mark, counting prolong.

However, Albrecht Detwiler states/muses that the Detwiler genome, due to being the most modified and advanced of the alpha lines, should see at least a half-millenia, or 500 years, if not more. Assuming that is correct, most of the other alpha lines should be hovering around 400 years.

So how close is complete immortality? Can it only be achieved by those who have been heavily gene modified for the purpose? Or will a form(s) of prolong be developed that extend life indefinitely?

It has been proposed that the first person to reach 200 is already alive. Biotechnology is reaching levels that were scifi a few years ago. We live in interesting times.

Weird Harold wrote:

Westbrook 49 wrote:However, Albrecht Detwiler states/muses that the Detwiler genome, due to being the most modified and advanced of the alpha lines, should see at least a half-millenia, or 500 years, if not more. Assuming that is correct, most of the other alpha lines should be hovering around 400 years.

Albrecht is overly optimistic. He couldn't be a proper super-villian without overstating his abillities by at least double "normals" life expectancy.

I think even if he's right, statistics will kill off everyone before biology will get a chance to; actual immortality is probably unobtainable through biological means. The longer someone lives, the greater the statistical certainty that a fatal accident will happen to them.

I suspect that third-generation prolong hasn't been around long enough to determine what the true life expectancy will be. Theoretical immortality may have already been achieved, but death by accident will keep anyone from noticing.

Albrecht Detweiller is not a "proper supervillan" in that sense. Comic book supervillans are usually loners, and even when they aren't, they don't have an entire society working on the problems. Albrecht has a huge bio-medical establishment as well as the Long Range Planning Board.

I remember someone doing that calculation. IIRC, it's about 5000 years before someone is pretty likely to have died by accident, been murdered, had a fatal illness or whatever.

As far as I'm concerned, "prolong" is simply arm waving. It's not that unreasonable for 1990 era ideas, and there are still a lot of people in the life extension camp who think you'll be able to get immortality out of a needle, but I seriously doubt it.

Robert Heinlein had the right idea: if we lived much longer, we'd need a completely new mechanism to handle memories. Without that, the longer one lives, the more older and lesser used memories are going to be trashed or simply forgotten.

Johnathan Swift had a few words to say about it, too.

As far as I'm concerned, the whole notion of immortality is an avoidance of old age and death in a society which is oriented to youth. Most historical societies would have regarded the pursuit of immortality as rather strange.

JohnRoth wrote:I remember someone doing that calculation. IIRC, it's about 5000 years before someone is pretty likely to have died by accident, been murdered, had a fatal illness or whatever.

I've seen several different results from 500 to 10,000. The basic premise is sound, but the calculations rely on too many assumptions.

The limits of prolog depends on how much they can slow/stretch aging and how long can an age be preserved? Prolog sounds like it is based on the telomere genes.

The other thing to consider is that the age of the person where aging stops makes a big difference as accidents can end a lot of lives. Statistically it has been shown that a ten year old in western society could average 10,000 years before meeting a bad end while a 90 year old may only last 50 years. Old brittle bones etc.... Lots of 25 year olds are killed on motor cycles, hang gliding, parachutes.... Falling off ladders, not too many 90 year olds climb ladders.

Lord Skimper wrote:The other thing to consider is that the age of the person where aging stops ...

Physical age, or mental age?

As a wise, or possibly funny, man once said, "Growing old is mandatory, growing up is optional.


It has been asserted that as life expectancy goes up, suicide will also as people get bored with "been there, done that." The risk-taking natural invulnerability of young adults is more a function of mental age than physical age -- experience will have a moderating effect on young adults whether their bodies age or not.

Weird Harold wrote:
Albrecht is overly optimistic. He couldn't be a proper super-villian without overstating his abillities by at least double "normals" life expectancy.

I think even if he's right, statistics will kill off everyone before biology will get a chance to; actual immortality is probably unobtainable through biological means. The longer someone lives, the greater the statistical certainty that a fatal accident will happen to them.

I suspect that third-generation prolong hasn't been around long enough to determine what the true life expectancy will be. Theoretical immortality may have already been achieved, but death by accident will keep anyone from noticing.

You have it dead on. Eventually illness, accident, or violence will kill. I'm reminded of Lorien of Babylon 5.