Scottish Independance, anyone?

Or subtitled "The possible breakup of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland within the next hundred years?"

"A referendum on whether Scotland should be an independent country will take place on Thursday 18 September 2014. Following an agreement between the Scottish Government and the United Kingdom Government, the Scottish Independence Referendum Bill, setting out the arrangements for this referendum, was put forward on 21 March 2013, passed by the Scottish Parliament on 14 November 2013 and received Royal Assent on 17 December 2013. The question to be asked in the referendum will be "Should Scotland be an independent country?" as recommended by the Electoral Commission.

The principal issues in the referendum are the economic strength of Scotland and whether the rest of the UK will agree to share the pound sterling, defence arrangements, continued relations with the rest of the UK, and membership of supranational organisations, particularly the European Union (EU) and NATO."

BBC News portal:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/16630456

Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_independence_referendum,_2014

Scottish government webpage:
http://www.scotreferendum.com/

Pro-independence "Yes Scotland" campaign:
http://www.yesscotland.net/

Pro-Union "Better Together" campaign:
http://bettertogether.net/

So, what have you heard about this? Anything, some or none? Or do you not give a toss?

How does the average citizen in a foreign country view the prospect of one of the world's was visible countries peacefully disintegrating?

Mike.

What could go wrong?

It worked like a charm for the former Soviet Union and Yugoslavia.

Michael Riddell wrote:Or subtitled "The possible breakup of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland within the next hundred years?"

"A referendum on whether Scotland should be an independent country will take place on Thursday 18 September 2014. Following an agreement between the Scottish Government and the United Kingdom Government, the Scottish Independence Referendum Bill, setting out the arrangements for this referendum, was put forward on 21 March 2013, passed by the Scottish Parliament on 14 November 2013 and received Royal Assent on 17 December 2013. The question to be asked in the referendum will be "Should Scotland be an independent country?" as recommended by the Electoral Commission.

The principal issues in the referendum are the economic strength of Scotland and whether the rest of the UK will agree to share the pound sterling, defence arrangements, continued relations with the rest of the UK, and membership of supranational organisations, particularly the European Union (EU) and NATO."

BBC News portal:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/16630456

Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_independence_referendum,_2014

Scottish government webpage:
http://www.scotreferendum.com/

Pro-independence "Yes Scotland" campaign:
http://www.yesscotland.net/

Pro-Union "Better Together" campaign:
http://bettertogether.net/

So, what have you heard about this? Anything, some or none? Or do you not give a toss?

How does the average citizen in a foreign country view the prospect of one of the world's was visible countries peacefully disintegrating?

Mike.

What I heard was that the Scots would vote "No"
but the English would vote "YES!"

Precedents: Norway-Sweden,
Slovakia-Czech Republic,
Six Republics-Yugoslavia.

HTM

Michael Riddell wrote:Or subtitled "The possible breakup of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland within the next hundred years?"

[snip - htm]

So, what have you heard about this? Anything, some or none? Or do you not give a toss?

How does the average citizen in a foreign country view the prospect of one of the world's was visible countries peacefully disintegrating?

Mike.

So, what have you heard about this? Anything, some or none? Or do you not give a toss?

Are (some of) the Scots slightly insane?

I mean seriously, the most ardent indenpence supporters seem to think that they can drop out, still keep the benefits from the UK but not have any of the negatives with it...

The rest seems more ambivalent about it, doesnt seem to be all that much support beyond the hardcore people.

It´s just a complex and dastardly conspiracy by the EU to get the UK to adopt the Euro, bit by bit.



*****

What I heard was that the Scots would vote "No"
but the English would vote "YES!"

Indeed.
Some Scots have tried using indepence as a way of blackmailing the English, but then the English turn it around and say "go ahead! PLEASE!" and suddenly things are much less funny for those Scots.

TBH, things are a bit strange just now.

Most people agree that the "Better Together" campaign has put it's foot in it enough to annoy people - people don't like being talked down to, which is how it comes across. Relentlessly "no Scotland can't do this, can't do that", "No, No, NO!" etc is getting wearing. It's got to the point that any Government Minister knows they'll get a hostile response if they come north of the border.

"Yes Scotland" is a more positive message, but the SNP hasn't given enough concrete facts in it's "White Paper" to allay fears. There are too many holes and maybe's for a lot of people. The proposal for the currency union with a Rump UK is one case in point. If, as indicated by the Chancellor, one side says NO, then what? Salmond and co. are portraying it as one colossal bluff, but what if it isn't? They haven't given any real, solid indication that they have a genuine Plan B.

As for England saying YES, there is that element in the population, but they've finally woken up as to what's happening in Scotland. There are a lot of questions being asked now about the state of things in this country, like the gap between London and the rest of the country. North verses south, possibly regional autonomy for England's regions or counties. What will Wales and Northern Ireland do if Scotland votes yes? Even Cornwall's been recognised a minority group:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-27132035

In my own opinion, Scotland will probably vote no, but it's going to be a surly "no", rather than a patriotic "NOOO". Even with that result, the UK won't be the same, less monolithic. Holyrood will get more powers, as will Cardiff and Stormont, but England will have to get devolution as well, either as one entity or regionally.

Perhaps "the United Kingdoms are", rather than "the United Kingdom is", to paraphrase the late Shelby Foote in George Burn's Civil War series?

Mike.

I've been following this topic a little over the past year but not overly so. Probably because I just don't have the feeling it concerns me much whatever the outcome.

I have this 'they have to decide that themselves' attitude towards it. I can understand both sides.

My personal preference - I think - would be a 'no' vote. The only reason for that really is that in my opinion European states are small enough already and splintering them up even more is kind of not helpful. I never understood by the Czech Republic and Slovakia split for instance.

However if the result of the vote were a 'yes' that wouldn't be a big catastrophy either in my opinion. I think people have a tendency to overstate the problems it would create. I am sure some practical solutions would be found and it would work out in the end.

If Scottland becomes independent yet affiliated with England, will the French allow the Scotts to barrow the aircraft carrier?

namelessfly wrote:If Scottland becomes independent yet affiliated with England, will the French allow the Scotts to barrow the aircraft carrier?

The Queen Elizabeth is being built for the RN. The French were looking at using the same design (adapted for CATOBAR operation) but pulled out due to financial problems in France:

The requirement for the carriers was confirmed by Jacques Chirac in 2004 for the centennial of the Entente Cordiale and on 26 January 2006 the defence ministers of France and Britain reached an agreement regarding cooperation on the design of their future carriers. France agreed to pay the UK for access to the design due to the investment made to date. These payments were £30m in January 2006, £25m in July 2006 and a further £45m if France decides to proceed with the project.

The FY2008 French defence budget included the necessary funding, €3bn, for the ship. However, in April 2008 French Defence Minister Herve Morin cast doubt over plans for a second aircraft carrier, citing a cash crunch and the fact that rising oil prices put the question of the propulsion back on the table, and said a decision would be taken soon. Further doubts were cast on the project on 21 June 2008 when then French President Nicolas Sarkozy decided to suspend co-operation with Britain on the aircraft carrier. Sarkozy stated that a final decision on France building a second carrier would be taken by 2012.

British plans for two aircraft carriers went ahead as planned despite the French withdrawal, as the original project had in any case been a British one and not dependent on French involvement.

Taken from the Wikipedia page on the subject.

The French subsequently cancelled plans for a second carrier last year. It appears that the Charles de Gaulle (probably due to it's nuclear powerplant) is a money sink for the Marine National.

The SNP has some rather grand plans for a Scandinavian style defence policy, but the actual ability to finance it is a major question. It's all very well taking a portion of UK equipment, but you have to find the money to maintain it, as well as use it.

In reality I'd expect any future Scottish Defence Force to more akin to what Ireland has. Add in a larger maritime component to protect the oil fields in the North Sea, plus some cheap interceptors (probably the SAAB Gripen) and that should be sufficient for the role Scotland would be able to afford.

Mike.

Amusingly, 80% of the money for the pro-independence campaign has been donated by a couple who won a Euro-millions jackpot.

How apt.

Scotland is gambling on its future and the odds are against it...

Michael Everett wrote:Amusingly, 80% of the money for the pro-independence campaign has been donated by a couple who won a Euro-millions jackpot.

How apt.

Scotland is gambling on its future and the odds are against it...

Old news - we heard about that months ago.

They deny it of course.

Mike.