A Teeny snippet from HFQ (spoiler)

robertamgottlieb wrote
I have been wondering about their expertise, it seems quite remarkable. Did Aivah have a school for assassins?
Who provided the training for her people?

Then there's the money--she may be a financial whiz- but she starts as "an employee", and works her way up (perhaps that's a poor way to phrase it). Anyway, early on, she doesn't have a lot to invest-and every mark she takes out for her network-isn't compounding into more money. Then there's the money she has to invest in her own business. Then there's the occasional economic downturn, the loss of a cargo, a fire, natural disasters, etc. I'm not saying she couldn't have gotten very rich in 40-50 years-, I am suggesting that without an existing nestegg, she couldn't do it in the 20 years between 20 and 40.

tootall wrote:robertamgottlieb wrote
I have been wondering about their expertise, it seems quite remarkable. Did Aivah have a school for assassins?
Who provided the training for her people?

Then there's the money--she may be a financial whiz- but she starts as "an employee", and works her way up (perhaps that's a poor way to phrase it). Anyway, early on, she doesn't have a lot to invest-and every mark she takes out for her network-isn't compounding into more money. Then there's the money she has to invest in her own business. Then there's the occasional economic downturn, the loss of a cargo, a fire, natural disasters, etc. I'm not saying she couldn't have gotten very rich in 40-50 years-, I am suggesting that without an existing nestegg, she couldn't do it in the 20 years between 20 and 40.

I am not sure about the money. A courtesan catering to the elite of any society can rake in the dough in a hurry. Then imagine a significant portion of that in diversified investment. The thing is, once the pump is primed, money can grow geometricly rather than arithmeticly.

Personally I believe that Aivah is a highly trained and talented operative in an organization that predates her. She has accomplished some pretty impressive stuff, but she didn't do it alone. Just considering what she has done suggests that she is working with other operatives who are also well trained. Then note that the inquisition didn't tumble to that organization's existence until they started assasinating vicars. Pretty impressive operational security. Then think about those 6800 rifles she purchased prior to the Sword of Schuler. She used about 1500 to equip the regiment she recruited from the Charisian quarter in Siddar City that saved the Protector's bacon when the SoS struck.

Where were the remainder going? They were shortstoped to begin rearming Stohner's troops. But originally according to text ev, they were bound for the temple lands. That in turn implies an organization ready to receive them and put them to proper use.

Consider further that after Aivah left Zion, the organization she left behind had to be able to operate independently with only infrequent direction from Aivah.

Finally, why believe that the organization predates Aivah? Two reasons. First the degree of professional tradecraft by multiple persons implies an institutional memory that can train and pass along the skills Aivah and her operatives have demonstrated. Secondly, the size of the organization as implied by all those rifles implies a very longstanding approach to recruitment, more than likely families who like the Wylsyns have been at it for generations, of course with a different emphasis. To have recruited people in a shorter time would have attracted the inquisition's attention, given that the inquisition in Safeholden society is almost omnipresent.

Most of this is sheer inference, of course. It will be interesting to see how RFC actually plays it. I wonder if she is working to support Duchairn even though in all probability Duchairn isn't aware of it. Oh well, an interesting thought exercise if nothing else.

Don

And Not just an organization prepared to use them, but an organization who belivied they could use that many, or would shortly be needing to use that many. Assuming if they wanted all the guns for training up soldiers, and they had a ratio of 1 teacher to 30 students in a class, thats well on the way to 200 teachers that are going to be teaching riflemanship to the first class or so, if thats just for the first group and includes guns for the trainers.

n7axw wrote:

tootall wrote:robertamgottlieb wrote
I have been wondering about their expertise, it seems quite remarkable. Did Aivah have a school for assassins?
Who provided the training for her people?

Then there's the money--she may be a financial whiz- but she starts as "an employee", and works her way up (perhaps that's a poor way to phrase it). Anyway, early on, she doesn't have a lot to invest-and every mark she takes out for her network-isn't compounding into more money. Then there's the money she has to invest in her own business. Then there's the occasional economic downturn, the loss of a cargo, a fire, natural disasters, etc. I'm not saying she couldn't have gotten very rich in 40-50 years-, I am suggesting that without an existing nestegg, she couldn't do it in the 20 years between 20 and 40.

I am not sure about the money. A courtesan catering to the elite of any society can rake in the dough in a hurry. Then imagine a significant portion of that in diversified investment. The thing is, once the pump is primed, money can grow geometricly rather than arithmeticly.

Personally I believe that Aivah is a highly trained and talented operative in an organization that predates her. She has accomplished some pretty impressive stuff, but she didn't do it alone. Just considering what she has done suggests that she is working with other operatives who are also well trained. Then note that the inquisition didn't tumble to that organization's existence until they started assasinating vicars. Pretty impressive operational security. Then think about those 6800 rifles she purchased prior to the Sword of Schuler. She used about 1500 to equip the regiment she recruited from the Charisian quarter in Siddar City that saved the Protector's bacon when the SoS struck.

Where were the remainder going? They were shortstoped to begin rearming Stohner's troops. But originally according to text ev, they were bound for the temple lands. That in turn implies an organization ready to receive them and put them to proper use.

Consider further that after Aivah left Zion, the organization she left behind had to be able to operate independently with only infrequent direction from Aivah.

Finally, why believe that the organization predates Aivah? Two reasons. First the degree of professional tradecraft by multiple persons implies an institutional memory that can train and pass along the skills Aivah and her operatives have demonstrated. Secondly, the size of the organization as implied by all those rifles implies a very longstanding approach to recruitment, more than likely families who like the Wylsyns have been at it for generations, of course with a different emphasis. To have recruited people in a shorter time would have attracted the inquisition's attention, given that the inquisition in Safeholden society is almost omnipresent.

Most of this is sheer inference, of course. It will be interesting to see how RFC actually plays it. I wonder if she is working to support Duchairn even though in all probability Duchairn isn't aware of it. Oh well, an interesting thought exercise if nothing else.

Don

The problem I see here is who do you trust with the guns? You can't openly recruit and you don't want to be handing them over to someone who will shoot you in the back. You don't want to be infiltrated by the bad guys.

So who? My own inability to answer that is what leads me to believe that Aivah's organization must be able to utilize the weapons internally which in turn implies an organization larger and better established than I might otherwise have believed.

Don

schoeffelk wrote:I have said this before but it does bear repeating. Ahbraim was Merlin's first attempt at another seijin. He used Silkian language but would fall back to his/her old mannerisms and language patterns. Aivah was cognizant of his initial appearance and questioned her employee later. She was more observant after Ahbraim confronted her and her poison necklace. Aivah watches everything. That is why she and her predecessors have survived over the years. They are overly suspicious. She watches everyone and everything that involves her. She may have heard stories from her predecessor as to what could be expected in the future from Shan-wei's quiver. The organization she is part of only picks the best and brightest for advancement. She is grooming someone to succeed her. I believe Major Phandys is her inside operative. She wants to rescue Ducharyn (sp) if Clyntan try to have him assassinated. He would then proclaim the depravities of Clyntan and Aivah would release her files.
What say you?

Several good observations here. Could there have been more than a cyanide pill in her necklace? Also, I haven't seen the suggestion that one of the Wilsons might have given her some information about what is under the temple. Perhaps something they would have told to Peter or may have hidden in in their personnel papers that would have passed to him in the normal way were it possible.

Also, Merlin made note that he was unable to intercept the messages that she sent to her operatives in Zion

Anyway, my bet is that she has something that she was asked to do under the temple.

Just my 2¢

Charlie

I have had some time to reread most of the books in the series. One thing that struck me was that the Duke of Eastshare also noted the strong resemblance of Merlin and Ahbraim in the discussion about where his army should stop in Glacierheart. He may be the next to figure it out.

Also, I do stand corrected about travel times.

tootall wrote:robertamgottlieb wrote
I'm not saying she couldn't have gotten very rich in [b]40-50 years-, I am suggesting that without an existing nestegg, she couldn't do it in the 20 years between 20 and 40.

Your comment reminds me of a quote in a book about billionaires:

"The first trick to becoming a billionaire is being born a millionaire," says author Ben Mezrich.