Is Duchairn conspiring to overthrow Clyntahn?

"Bibliophile" means Book Loving (as in reading not eating). [Wink]

As for what the Mighty Wizard Weber will do about Clyntahn, we're sure to finding it interesting and enjoyable.

tootall wrote:Drak wrote:
Duchairn may see himself as "making contingency plans" but Clyntahn would see it as "conspiring".

Dear Dracobibiophilus-(I assume that's the technical name for the Dragon?)

As I recall, "Runsfor" once dropped the McQueen revolt- end of the Committee, into the beginning of a chapter- and let Theisman deal with it. (fav line- "Say goodbye Citizen Chairman".)

What a bombshell. He could do something like that here. I think that because 1)the war is becoming somewhat predictable. 2)Those in Zion are untouchable.
3) Rfc likes that sort of thing.

In which case, "contingency" plans would be of value. (So would some loyal troops.)

I think its pretty clear that in any power changes that happen the inquisition as an organization will have be purged more brutally than the Soviet officer Corps in 1937

I think that Durchains main power base to do the foot work of rebellion is the commoners in Zion.

They are the ones who have the most to gain and the most to lose from any removal of the Treasuer.

I suspect that if the all the priests who run the shelters gave the call a good chunk of the city would go in to rebellion especially as they would lose there ability to feed there families if Durchain loses.

I wonder if Zion has "Trained Bands"?

http://bcw-project.org/military/trained-bands

Alistair wrote:I think its pretty clear that in any power changes that happen the inquisition as an organization will have be purged more brutally than the Soviet officer Corps in 1937

I think that Durchains main power base to do the foot work of rebellion is the commoners in Zion.

They are the ones who have the most to gain and the most to lose from any removal of the Treasuer.

I suspect that if the all the priests who run the shelters gave the call a good chunk of the city would go in to rebellion especially as they would lose there ability to feed there families if Durchain loses.

The responses here have been great, gang. In my own review of the relavant texts, I missed the hint in the encounter between Duchairn and Hauwerd Wylsyn, but there it is. It makes Hauwerd's remarks to Duchairn seem a bit ironic, namely Duchairn had to be careful about where he was going lest he reach the end of his path before he accomplished everything God had given him to do.

Someone upstream mentioned Aivah. Just who is it whom Hauwerd protects be killing Samyl and dying himself by Phandys' sword? Aivah, that's who. Only Hauwerd and Samyl know about her. No one who is put to the question will be able to reveal a thing because no one else is aware of her existence.

It makes more sense to me for Aivah to be a part of an established organization rather than starting her own. Her organization seems large and quite far reaching. For one thing in Siddar City, she purchased about 6500 rifles, about 1500 of which she used to equip a regiment of men she quietly recruited and had trained and then used to provide the tipping point against the Sword of Schuler in Siddar City, saving Stohner's bacon in the process.

The other 5000 according to textev she had earmarked for the Temple lands. Those weapons were shortstopped to arm Siddarmarkans. But for whom were they intended? Her organization which includes highly trained operatives who betray a high degree of professionalism and extensive training, judging from their accomplishments. Obviously not people recruited on the spur of the moment or the inquisition would have noticed, but rather people who had been gathered by her organization over decades and in some cases generations. Who provided that training? I would conjecture not Aivah. At some point, probably in the nunnery she herself was recruited and trained. Then as a highly capable and intelligent individual she rises to her present position, a position which counts on her to make independent decisions, committing the organization to decisive action when needed.

Presuming Duchairn to be a conspirator, could it be that her organization is in a position to provide a force tipping point in Zion like Aivah did in Siddar City when the moment becomes ripe for the conspiracy? From textev we do know that Clyntahn has banned all armed force from Zion but the Inquisition. Could this be his undoing? Finally could it be that this is what underlies her need for a quick trip to Zion when she approaches Merlin?

Don

n7axw wrote:
Someone upstream mentioned Aivah. Just who is it whom Hauwerd protects be killing Samyl and dying himself by Phandys' sword? Aivah, that's who. Only Hauwerd and Samyl know about her. No one who is put to the question will be able to reveal a thing because no one else is aware of her existence.

It makes more sense to me for Aivah to be a part of an established organization rather than starting her own. Her organization seems large and quite far reaching. For one thing in Siddar City, she purchased about 6500 rifles, about 1500 of which she used to equip a regiment of men she quietly recruited and had trained and then used to provide the tipping point against the Sword of Schuler in Siddar City, saving Stohner's bacon in the process.


Presuming Duchairn to be a conspirator, could it be that her organization is in a position to provide a force tipping point in Zion like Aivah did in Siddar City when the moment becomes ripe for the conspiracy? From textev we do know that Clyntahn has banned all armed force from Zion but the Inquisition. Could this be his undoing? Finally could it be that this is what underlies her need for a quick trip to Zion when she approaches Merlin?

Don

This is the best summary of a possibility that has been kicking around a long time. This is the only one that makes a lot of sense and is consistent with the facts we know. Great work! Of courses, since this is RFC's world, he's probably laughing his head of with what you came up with - either because it isn't or won't be true or because someone did such a great job of putting together the clues.

Actually, as I recall, the text suggests that Aivah approached the Circle rather than the other way around. She already had her own organization, discovered the Circle shortly after it started, and approached the Wylsynns with an offer of assistance. Her organization was completely independent of the Circle.

I don't think there is any evidence that her organization predates her, though.

But you make a good point that Hauwerd was clearly protecting Aivah specifically. It is conceivable that his note to Duchairn included some indirect method of contacting her. Or it might not, since Hauwerd was going to such lengths to protect her identity.

SWM wrote:Actually, as I recall, the text suggests that Aivah approached the Circle rather than the other way around. She already had her own organization, discovered the Circle shortly after it started, and approached the Wylsynns with an offer of assistance. Her organization was completely independent of the Circle.

I don't think there is any evidence that her organization predates her, though.

But you make a good point that Hauwerd was clearly protecting Aivah specifically. It is conceivable that his note to Duchairn included some indirect method of contacting her. Or it might not, since Hauwerd was going to such lengths to protect her identity.

Right. Her oganization is completely independent of the circle. And probably much larger than anything the Circle mustered on its own.

You say that there is no textev that her organization predates her. Right again. What I have said here is completely conjectural, reflection upon how it seems to me that she seems to me to be a professional operative trained by professionals just as her success in getting out the families and later orchestrating the assasinations imples a network with similar skills. All conjecture, I agree, More of a thought experiment, really. I have no idea how RFC is actually going to tell the story.

Don

The evidence that comes closest to proving her organisation predates her is the 2 decade long investment history for Aivah Pahrsons at the House of Qwentyn. If she started this organization on her own, where did she get the money so long ago? That would have been the time she was just starting as a courtesan. If she invested her money that far back, how did she develop and train her ops teams? If she began developing and training her teams back then, where did she get money to fund investments that grew to the fortune she currently has?

Nothing proves her organization predates her. Evidence suggests that quite strongly, IMHO.

I disagree. I believe she started investing as soon as she became a courtesan. She started making contacts back then, but didn't have to spend anything on the project yet. Between her growing contacts, shrewd investment, and savvy acquisition of cash, her accounts grew. Much of her expenditures were investments, in businesses and property. She didn't have to start spending money on training people until she had plenty of cash. She created her organization on her own.

I think the assumption that Aivah needed some older organization to accomplish all this is a gross underestimate of her skill and intelligence.

SWM wrote:I disagree. I believe she started investing as soon as she became a courtesan. She started making contacts back then, but didn't have to spend anything on the project yet. Between her growing contacts, shrewd investment, and savvy acquisition of cash, her accounts grew. Much of her expenditures were investments, in businesses and property. She didn't have to start spending money on training people until she had plenty of cash. She created her organization on her own.

I think the assumption that Aivah needed some older organization to accomplish all this is a gross underestimate of her skill and intelligence.

Disagreements are the spice of threaded conversations and being right when others aren't is the zero calorie dessert. Or perhaps the singlemalt scotch one enjoys to celebrate a small victory.

I'll enjoy mine late this year or early next year.