Solly Fleet Advancements

Good ideas all, but the inescapable problem is that the GA is vety unlikely to give the SL the time it needs to come to grips with the changed face of space warfare and to re-equip in time to avoid the inevitable breakups, be they engineered by the MAlign or just by people being fed up/"Warlords"seeing opportunity.

My opinion: The biggest issue is the SLN has (IMHO) is that they cannot stop Manty Missiles. The percentage has gone down in each engagement: (Byng destroyed 73 of 220 attack missiles (33.2%)), Crandall stopped 1,007 of 9,246 attack missiles (10.9%) and while I do not have a copy of ART, I think Pyun's average was even lower and Filareta's numbers weren't even given--and I do remember in Shadows of Freedom, the FF BC's at Slatash stopped 1 of 90 attack missiles--a paltry 1.1%.

So new and improved software for Halo (the Manties even acknowledge that the hardware isn't all that bad), more and more decoys, better tech to burn through the GA penaids, all of these are software-type changes that could be added to existing ships to give them at least some chance of surviving the initial salvos of M23's and M16's and get into some type of range.

Probably too late, unless it is already in (slow)development at various SLN labs; even at this crisis, the bureaucratic inefficiency built into the system over centuries will probably doom such efforts.

Now for some of the SDF's.....well, that is another story, and one where the velvet glove may work better for the GA than the Iron fist (albeit said fist is lurking in the background and the SDF's know it).

We shall see--eventually.

namelessfly wrote:The SLN should review all of it's files on new weapons technologies that had been offered to it by the various Transtellers but rejected as either unneeded given the SLN's vast fleet of SDs or incompatible with established, tactical doctrine. Remember the conversation between Honor and Hammish in IEH? Also, remember the stealth missiles that were used in AoV?

They wouldn't be all that useful against warships. But they could well be the basis for a Mistletoe style weapon for use against system-defense pods (assuming you can find them) or fixed infrastructure targets...

[edit - oops, I now see Hutch said basically the same as below earlier this morning]
And I don't think it's anywhere near enough - but even the Manties thought the Halo hardware was pretty decent. So there's definite room for improvements in their ECM abilities (just dumping the routines Manticore's captured and can pre-program against will help a lot; but it can get way better once they put some real work into ECM research and testing)

But fortunately that's just a software update so it can be quickly rolled out once the new software's ready. Fixing things like their offensive missiles, or the pitifully slow cycle time on the CM launchers is going to take a lot longer - even if the improved tech is already sitting on some transteller's shelf ready for sale and install.

lyonheart wrote:Hi Drothgery,

My first post was lost, so here's the second attempt.

RFC has stated the SLN can't get pod naughts in less than 5 years (more like 10 IIRC) so this thread is rather moot.

Yes, but that's not due to lack of capability (and I think it was at least a year ago 'in-universe' when he wrote that), it's due to bureaucratic inertia. If they've put me in charge, that's gone. Anyone who objects to my plans without making an actual better proposal will be locked in a room where a robot reads the Solarian casualty list from Second Manticore 24/7.

System defense pods? Technodyne deployed a version at Monica. SLN should know about this due to the amazing intelligence gathering tactic of 'watching the news'. Figuring out you need some kind of system for deploying lots of fire control to go with lots of missile pods is obvious even to Sollies.

SD(P)s? The SLN can learn they exist by reviewing the public records of defense committee debates in the Manticoran Parliament and Havenite Congress. And while coming up with a good pod rail system (and an SD or BC to wrap around it) is a bit tricky, [edit, posted mid-thought somehow] it's not all that difficult; both Haven and the Andies managed to do it in the few years between the Havenite wars.

The cure for bureaucratic inertia is a pulsar dart to the head.

The Mandarins have been pimping out the OFS goons to Transtellers to commit mass murders and even EE violations just to generate some extra revenue. They will not hesitate to start killing SLN officers who demonstrate incompetence by impeding needed technologies.

Remember; there are two methods to increase the functional IQ of a population.

The really slow method is to start breeding smarter people.

The fast track is to kill the really stupid people.

drothgery wrote:

lyonheart wrote:Hi Drothgery,

My first post was lost, so here's the second attempt.

RFC has stated the SLN can't get pod naughts in less than 5 years (more like 10 IIRC) so this thread is rather moot.

Yes, but that's not due to lack of capability (and I think it was at least a year ago 'in-universe' when he wrote that), it's due to bureaucratic inertia. If they've put me in charge, that's gone. Anyone who objects to my plans without making an actual better proposal will be locked in a room where a robot reads the Solarian casualty list from Second Manticore 24/7.

System defense pods? Technodyne deployed a version at Monica. SLN should know about this due to the amazing intelligence gathering tactic of 'watching the news'. Figuring out you need some kind of system for deploying lots of fire control to go with lots of missile pods is obvious even to Sollies.

SD(P)s? The SLN can learn they exist by reviewing the public records of defense committee debates in the Manticoran Parliament and Havenite Congress. And while coming up with a good pod rail system (and an SD or BC to wrap around it) is a bit tricky.

It would help tremendously if SLN commanders could implement the time hored tactic of rolling ship to interpose their wedges.

Hutch wrote:Good ideas all, but the inescapable problem is that the GA is vety unlikely to give the SL the time it needs to come to grips with the changed face of space warfare and to re-equip in time to avoid the inevitable breakups, be they engineered by the MAlign or just by people being fed up/"Warlords"seeing opportunity.

My opinion: The biggest issue is the SLN has (IMHO) is that they cannot stop Manty Missiles. The percentage has gone down in each engagement: (Byng destroyed 73 of 220 attack missiles (33.2%)), Crandall stopped 1,007 of 9,246 attack missiles (10.9%) and while I do not have a copy of ART, I think Pyun's average was even lower and Filareta's numbers weren't even given--and I do remember in Shadows of Freedom, the FF BC's at Slatash stopped 1 of 90 attack missiles--a paltry 1.1%.

So new and improved software for Halo (the Manties even acknowledge that the hardware isn't all that bad), more and more decoys, better tech to burn through the GA penaids, all of these are software-type changes that could be added to existing ships to give them at least some chance of surviving the initial salvos of M23's and M16's and get into some type of range.

Probably too late, unless it is already in (slow)development at various SLN labs; even at this crisis, the bureaucratic inefficiency built into the system over centuries will probably doom such efforts.

Now for some of the SDF's.....well, that is another story, and one where the velvet glove may work better for the GA than the Iron fist (albeit said fist is lurking in the background and the SDF's know it).

We shall see--eventually.

namelessfly wrote:The cure for bureaucratic inertia is a pulsar dart to the head.

The Mandarins have been pimping out the OFS goons to Transtellers to commit mass murders and even EE violations just to generate some extra revenue. They will not hesitate to start killing SLN officers who demonstrate incompetence by impeding needed technologies.

Remember; there are two methods to increase the functional IQ of a population.

The really slow method is to start breeding smarter people.

The fast track is to kill the really stupid people.

I've not seen any evidence that OFS have committed a violation of the Eridani Edict.

namelessfly wrote:The cure for bureaucratic inertia is a pulsar dart to the head.

The Mandarins have been pimping out the OFS goons to Transtellers to commit mass murders and even EE violations just to generate some extra revenue. They will not hesitate to start killing SLN officers who demonstrate incompetence by impeding needed technologies.

Remember; there are two methods to increase the functional IQ of a population.

The really slow method is to start breeding smarter people.

The fast track is to kill the really stupid people.

Problem with that is, if you start killing in large numbers, people who suspect they're on the list will Do Something. If we're talking Battle Fleet officers, they have quite a lot of resources with which to resist, given how intertwined all the family links are. Doing so could easily trigger a civil war between the Mandarins and the Admiralty.

The SL isn't in the position the PRH was when the Pierre Coup took place - Saint-Just had InSec ready to become StateSec and some pretty compelling fabricated evidence to justify their actions. And look how well that worked out militarily.

The less brutal means would be retiring those personnel. Or assigning them to recruitment duty. There certainly are enough flag officers around to give each recruiting office a few stars!

Read Shadow of Freedom.

Tekerov was very pissed off about all of the KE strikes against civilians.

Dafmeister wrote:

namelessfly wrote:The cure for bureaucratic inertia is a pulsar dart to the head.

The Mandarins have been pimping out the OFS goons to Transtellers to commit mass murders and even EE violations just to generate some extra revenue. They will not hesitate to start killing SLN officers who demonstrate incompetence by impeding needed technologies.

Remember; there are two methods to increase the functional IQ of a population.

The really slow method is to start breeding smarter people.

The fast track is to kill the really stupid people.

I've not seen any evidence that OFS have committed a violation of the Eridani Edict.

namelessfly wrote:Read Shadow of Freedom.

Tekerov was very pissed off about all of the KE strikes against civilians.

Yes, but IIRC, all of those strikes were done at the request of the local government. Not only does that by definition not fall under the edict, the local government held the orbitals, and the rebels did not surrender, allowing a strike under the edict. Or did I miss some?

namelessfly wrote:The cure for bureaucratic inertia is a pulsar dart to the head.

The Mandarins have been pimping out the OFS goons to Transtellers to commit mass murders and even EE violations just to generate some extra revenue. They will not hesitate to start killing SLN officers who demonstrate incompetence by impeding needed technologies.

Remember; there are two methods to increase the functional IQ of a population.

The really slow method is to start breeding smarter people.

The fast track is to kill the really stupid people.

I doubt if SLN officers are that stupid. They're just focused on what really matters: bureaucratic infighting to advance their careers and that of their family and clan.

That's why a pulsar dart won't fix the problem: they're doing exactly what the system demands that they do, and doing it quite well.

The whole system is rotten; when there's an external challenge, they've lost sight of how to deal with it.