Honorverse series, the future..?

n7axw wrote:I tend to be in the no surrender camp myself. Part of what we have been dealing with is the League's almost absolute belief that it can call the tune without paying the fiddler or to phrase it another way, to insist that someone else pay the fiddler. Mandarins sending out a fleet to Beowulf is more of the same.

There is another side to it, however. Jonathan is right to point out that there is a political vector to this. I think that the loss of another fleet providing a further stimulus to break up of League rather than providing a rallying point.

But still if calling upon the other side to surrender can be done without endangering one's self tacticly, there probably is political advantage in not gaining a reputation for being TOO murderous.

Don

And calling for surrender lets you keep pushing the (actually correct) narrative that Manticore doesn't want this war; that they're being forced to defend themselves and their allies against repeated (stupid) unwarranted SLN aggression.

Which should make it easier for their diplomats to convince League members that the Grand Alliance would love to sign a non-aggression pact, or even provide some short to medium term defensive support for worlds that broke free of the bloated, corrupt, and increasingly incompetent League government and it's insane and irrational Bureaucracy.


But I also agree with Hutch (and alluded to it previously). It depends on the tactical situation. As beneficial as the moral, PR, and diplomatic win might be for forcing a surrender, or at least giving them the chance; it's not worth risking your own ships, personnel, or mission. If you get crowded/rushed and there isn't time to safely demand surrender then, yes, blow them away immediately.

n7axw wrote:After all that has happened is Solarian League and GA formally at war? If the SLN shows up at Beowulf, does the GA give them a chance to retreat unscathed or should Solly fleet simply be blown to dust bunnies without warning?

Given the events of Field of Dishonor, it certainly appears that the Star Kingdom of Manticore's ability to conduct military operations without formally declaring war was severely limited, and that all across the Manticoran political spectrum this was regarded as a Good Thing. It's possible that forming the Star Empire changed this, but it seems unlikely. It's possible that the lack of an effective opposition in the Manticoran Parliament means that it's possible to get away with legally dubious operations for a while, but we know both the Crown and the senior leadership of the Centrist Party care a lot about not setting bad precedents. So I pretty strongly suspect that before any RMN offensives against the League beyond the early stages of Lacoon II, they're going to want a formal declaration of war.

drothgery wrote:

n7axw wrote:After all that has happened is Solarian League and GA formally at war? If the SLN shows up at Beowulf, does the GA give them a chance to retreat unscathed or should Solly fleet simply be blown to dust bunnies without warning?

Given the events of Field of Dishonor, it certainly appears that the Star Kingdom of Manticore's ability to conduct military operations without formally declaring war was severely limited, and that all across the Manticoran political spectrum this was regarded as a Good Thing. It's possible that forming the Star Empire changed this, but it seems unlikely. It's possible that the lack of an effective opposition in the Manticoran Parliament means that it's possible to get away with legally dubious operations for a while, but we know both the Crown and the senior leadership of the Centrist Party care a lot about not setting bad precedents. So I pretty strongly suspect that before any RMN offensives against the League beyond the early stages of Lacoon II, they're going to want a formal declaration of war.

And Honor said that if Raging Justice crossed into Manty space, they would consider themselves at war. I do not think it would be at all difficult to get a deceleration passed after an actual invasion of the home system.

The current US congress, if on fire, could not pass the "Pour Water on Congress Act," but if China sent a war fleet into San Francisco Bay, do you really think they wouldn't vote out a deceleration?

crewdude48 wrote:The current US congress, if on fire, could not pass the "Pour Water on Congress Act," but if China sent a war fleet into San Francisco Bay, do you really think they wouldn't vote out a deceleration?

Yes.

Hi Crewdude44

What is a "deceleration"? Slowing down?? Just teasing.. I think the word you are really looking for is declaration.
And I agree with your main point. I wonder though if it has already happened and hasn't made it into text evidence although that does seem unlikely.

Don

I have no problems with The GA asking for surrender, although it should be rephrased as "begging" for a smart surrender to these idiots. But I am in no way, no how on any frickin' bandwagon allowing the SLN into their own missile range. Not a single GA death should occur unless someone eats or drinks themself to death celebrating afterwards.

Aside:
After the completion of David's final one or two books I wonder if the final book will include digital disks containing all works to date. Let it be a special special-edition.

Personally, I'd like to have the entire collection leatherbound. With treecat bookends looking over the quarry. They'll be able to tell me if borrowers intend to return.

cthia wrote:Aside:
After the completion of David's final one or two books I wonder if the final book will include digital disks containing all works to date. Let it be a special special-edition.

It's unlikely. When Baen was only selling eBooks through its own online store, they could do things like that. Now, it would cause problems with Amazon.

drothgery wrote:

cthia wrote:Aside:
After the completion of David's final one or two books I wonder if the final book will include digital disks containing all works to date. Let it be a special special-edition.

It's unlikely. When Baen was only selling eBooks through its own online store, they could do things like that. Now, it would cause problems with Amazon.

There are workarounds. Apparently offering a slightly different version gets around the Amazon rules. (which is how they can still offer a copy of the first couple books in their free library)

Get David to contribute a new brief afterwards; or throw in a BuNine ship appendix, or something, to each and presto - the brand new free 'Complete Series Commemorative ebook edition' for the pack in CD. (No idea if they'd do that; but it'd be a way to offer a free edition that should avoid running afoul of Amazon)

cthia wrote:Aside:
After the completion of David's final one or two books I wonder if the final book will include digital disks containing all works to date. Let it be a special special-edition.

drothgery wrote:It's unlikely. When Baen was only selling eBooks through its own online store, they could do things like that. Now, it would cause problems with Amazon.

Jonathan_S wrote:There are workarounds. Apparently offering a slightly different version gets around the Amazon rules. (which is how they can still offer a copy of the first couple books in their free library)

Get David to contribute a new brief afterwards; or throw in a BuNine ship appendix, or something, to each and presto - the brand new free 'Complete Series Commemorative ebook edition' for the pack in CD. (No idea if they'd do that; but it'd be a way to offer a free edition that should avoid running afoul of Amazon)

Or maybe copyedit them?

Seriously. A series I follow on another site (in a vastly different genre) went onto Amazon recently. The author had to pull the first few books, then she put them back up. I'm not sure how it worked, but apparently she didn't realize that those funny lines with three asterisks were there for a reason - the free versions don't have them.

Back on Baen - a properly laid out book doesn't have scene breaks on the last line of the page, especially on the right-hand page. The scene break is moved to the top of the next page, where the reader is more likely to notice it.

Is there not a small group of league navy officers, who are not so dismissive of the claims of a Mesan alignment?
I am sure they will eventually act, i doubt all of them would survive but at least one may.
We know they would quitely be investigating, the alignment is hiding from the alliance, the idea that navl officers are checking the story, might let info slip.